Unintelligent Design
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06-01-2014, 11:16 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 09:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 07:42 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  Genesis chapter 3 states that there was a talking serpent ("...the most cunning of the animals that God created..."), but there's no mention of this Lucifer fellow.
I know. It is symbolism.

So, by this same rationale I could infer that the "symbolism" of a talking serpent actually means that Gollum was there to coerce Eve to give him "the precious."

Without a special Cliff Notes scroll, anyone can make up whatever bat shit crazy interpretation of symbolism and metaphors that they wish. Then they could spread those erroneous ideas among impressionable masses. Hey, I think there's a name for this:
RELIGION

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07-01-2014, 02:23 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
Quote:Jeffasaurus WroteWithout a special Cliff Notes scroll, anyone can make up whatever bat shit crazy interpretation of symbolism and metaphors that they wish. Then they could spread those erroneous ideas among impressionable masses. Hey, I think there's a name for this:

Yeh - there is "hermeneutics" - name your probably thinking about.
I used to study the art of making symbolism when I did a course in hypnotherapy and psychology. We had a workshops where we did symbol analysis from all sorts of different perspectives eg Jungian & various myths. Can be fun.
The problem is there is no objective way of choosing the symbolic interpretations somewhat like dream interpretation and one can be very creative and literally give opposite interpretations.
Of course the Mormons have no authority on any interpretation of symbolism because you can just make up any subjective interpretation you like.
Just consider the interpretations of the book of Daniel and the beast - throughout history these where just re-interpreted based on the current events and end of days predictions - in the last century the "terrible beast" could be Nazi Germany in WW2, USSR in cold war....it keeps changing because you cannot pin down symbolism which is vague (unlike mathematical notation).
Today my random net search interprets the terrible beast to obviously be America:

Quote:This article explains how the beast of revelation is emerging in the United States. ... Daniel's Beasts rose to power when the four winds of heaven had churned up ... establish a united government that would eventually become a terrible beast..........Red and Purple

Babylon the Great was dressed in bright colours.


The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls (Rev 17:4).

Red and purple are the colours of royalty. They speak of kingly or political power. This woman has compromised herself by using political power to accomplish her purposes. By doing a deal with the political powers, she gained royal power, but spoilt her character.

The first name of the woman is "Mystery" (Rev 17:5). This is a warning that her appearance is deceiving. She appears to be beautiful, dressed in her lovely garments and glittering jewels, but underneath the facade, she is ugly and loathsome..................

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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07-01-2014, 02:33 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
Well - symbolism is usually highly subjective but most people find the little kitty above to be a symbol of warm cuteness and the one below pretty nasty.

[Image: cute-cats-cats-8477446-500-500.jpg]

[Image: vampire-bat-300x225.jpg]

Unless you have been bitten by the cat and research the bats.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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07-01-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
I remember this tale told by a scientist in a book:

If you stand on the side of the road, hitchhiking, with a sign that says 137, you'd probably be able to score a ride from a physicist."

137 is part of the modern numerology. It is the inverse of the fine structure constant:
Quote:The fine structure constant, α, determines the strength of interactions between electrically charged particles. Why it has the value it does—a dimensionless number currently accepted as 7.297 352 57 × 10−3—is still uncertain, and some theories say that it may not be truly constant.

It may not be truly constant.

I remember this other tale, where I substituted the idol Gwyneth Paltrow for the idol Jesus Christ to attempt the understanding of fanaticism. In the context of this thought experiment, let us call god "foundation of reality" that lurks just over the horizon, and let us choose from two instruments, telescopes, if you will, to observe the celestial body.

You ever look through a telescope? Better yet, a sniper scope? Because things move, the hand is unsteady, the prey is elusive; and it matters if you shoot the target or the wind.

Creationist theology is a scope that hasn't been zeroed in since burning people at the stake.

Science is a scope that considers the variance of the fine structure constant; and we can even disassemble this scope to see its relevance to evolution:

Mathematics>Physics>Chemistry>Biology

So which design is more intelligent, science or theology? If you are really talking about god and not religion and you ain't talking science, you ain't talking. Tongue

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07-01-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 11:16 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 09:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  I know. It is symbolism.

So, by this same rationale I could infer that the "symbolism" of a talking serpent actually means that Gollum was there to coerce Eve to give him "the precious."

Without a special Cliff Notes scroll, anyone can make up whatever bat shit crazy interpretation of symbolism and metaphors that they wish. Then they could spread those erroneous ideas among impressionable masses. Hey, I think there's a name for this:
RELIGION
You are right. When there is a lot of symbolism you can say what ever you want.
It doesn't mean it will be correct interpretation but still you are your own boss.Smile

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07-01-2014, 09:41 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 06:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 10:03 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Why would anyone need to learn how do something while blind, with Down's Syndrome, or with Cancer? If those things didn't exist in the first place, there would be no reason to learn about them.
Yes, but then we can say this about any kind of evil or hardship. Then we do not learn. we can not progress without having trials first.
KNOWLEDGE comes from EXPERIENCE. God KNOWS evil. How? From His own experience that is why He is God.
In order to progress someone has to have hardships.

(06-01-2014 10:03 AM)Impulse Wrote:  As for learning to deal with general hardship, there are less cruel hardships that could teach us the same lessons about having the strength to deal with them.
The harder test we overcome the stronger we become. Did you notice this?

(06-01-2014 10:03 AM)Impulse Wrote:  But why do we even need to have hardships? What use is that to any god? An omnipotent god could certainly create a whole universe without hardship for any of us.
He could but then we couldn't become like Him. We can not become like Him without hardship. It is not possible.

(06-01-2014 10:03 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Furthermore, all of this is just while here on Earth, according to your faith. After this, we go to eternal bliss with none of this. So why again did we need to learn about these things? We will be eternally taken care of supposedly by your "wonderful" god anyway after this blip in time here on Earth. Any "education" about cruel hardships will serve no purpose whatsoever.
So you can create your own worlds, your own children and then teach them what you know. You will be their God and their Father and ALL- knowing and ALL-mighty.
You're missing the whole point. God is supposedly omnipotent. So anything that you say is being accomplished through hardship, cruelty, and suffering could easily be accomplished by an omnipotent god in another way without the hardship, cruelty, and suffering.

And, by the way, if you honestly believe we could ever be "like" the god that you imagine exists, then you are certainly having delusions of grandeur (even if he does exist).

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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07-01-2014, 12:37 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(07-01-2014 09:07 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 11:16 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  So, by this same rationale I could infer that the "symbolism" of a talking serpent actually means that Gollum was there to coerce Eve to give him "the precious."

Without a special Cliff Notes scroll, anyone can make up whatever bat shit crazy interpretation of symbolism and metaphors that they wish. Then they could spread those erroneous ideas among impressionable masses. Hey, I think there's a name for this:
RELIGION
You are right. When there is a lot of symbolism you can say what ever you want.
It doesn't mean it will be correct interpretation but still you are your own boss.Smile
Perhaps you are still overlooking one fact: fictional stories use symbolism; history does not.

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07-01-2014, 03:50 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
Quote:The fine structure constant, α, determines the strength of interactions between electrically charged particles. Why it has the value it does—a dimensionless number currently accepted as 7.297 352 57 × 10−3—is still uncertain, and some theories say that it may not be truly constant.

What if my credit card # was 729735257103 - hope it doesn't keep fluctuating.
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11-01-2014, 07:42 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
Gods favourite design must be the blob fish !!!

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A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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11-01-2014, 08:25 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
Organisms having to respirate constantly or they die. Like....constantly.

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