Unintelligent Design
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19-08-2014, 02:39 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
non-existence of knowledge is not a knowledge of non-existence

You are trying to prove the non-existence of God by your "non-existence" of knowledge about a subject

If this is a new type of proof, then you should get a Noble prize for that Big Grin

Some of these things we may know in the future (e.g. why we have the blind spot, Appendix, etc.)

Others are just how God created things!
You assume how God should create things (based on no proof) then as it is not matching "your assumption" then God is not there Gasp

God created things in this life with limitations in functions and time, he created natural laws and order in the universe (not to be in Chaos), he also created good and evil and allowed us to do either so there will be rewards and punishments in the hereafter
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19-08-2014, 02:53 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 02:39 AM)Muslim Wrote:  non-existence of knowledge is not a knowledge of non-existence

You are trying to prove the non-existence of God by your "non-existence" of knowledge about a subject

If this is a new type of proof, then you should get a Noble prize for that Big Grin

Some of these things we may know in the future (e.g. why we have the blind spot, Appendix, etc.)

Others are just how God created things!
You assume how God should create things (based on no proof) then as it is not matching "your assumption" then God is not there Gasp

God created things in this life with limitations in functions and time, he created natural laws and order in the universe (not to be in Chaos), he also created good and evil and allowed us to do either so there will be rewards and punishments in the hereafter

Oh for fuck's sake. Facepalm

Get ready newbie, most of the people here go in hard and without lubrication. Evil_monster

Positive claims require positive evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; and claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you claim a god exists, the onus is on you to meet your burden of proof; not on the skeptic to prove you wrong.

Nobel Prizes are not awarded for logic, or for such epic failures in the field as you just demonstrated.

We take the attributed assigned to god, and extrapolate what we would expect to see given his attributes. The universe and creatures we would expect to see are vastly different than the universe and creatures we do see. Therefor it is safe to say that either your god doesn't have the attributes traditionally assigned to him by your religion, or he didn't make this universe, or he doesn't exist. Make your choice, and choose wisely.

If you still want to claim that your god made this universe, then he made a universe and creatures within it that don't require a god to explain them. Your god is therefore identical, for all intents and purposes, to a non existent god (as are all non-interventionist deity concepts). So even if your god does exists, it doesn't matter, because he's not doing shit.

Also we all know too much about the origins of Judaism and Christianity to take Allah or the Koran any more seriously than the 4th removed plagiarism that it is. Good luck with that...

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19-08-2014, 03:13 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 02:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Positive claims require positive evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; and claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you claim a god exists, the onus is on you to meet your burden of proof; not on the skeptic to prove you wrong.
Yes, this is correct, I can prove God existence, then it will be your turn to try to refute the proof.

Quote:We take the attributed assigned to god, and extrapolate what we would expect to see given his attributes. The universe and creatures we would expect to see are vastly different than the universe and creatures we do see. Therefor it is safe to say that either your god doesn't have the attributes traditionally assigned to him by your religion, or he didn't make this universe, or he doesn't exist. Make your choice, and choose wisely.
You missed the 4th option; which is that your extrapolation is wrong!

Quote:Also we all know too much about the origins of Judaism and Christianity to take Allah or the Koran any more seriously than the 4th removed plagiarism that it is. Good luck with that...
Not only I can prove existence, I can prove that Islam is the right religion as well.
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19-08-2014, 03:31 AM
Re: RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 03:13 AM)Muslim Wrote:  I can prove that Islam is the right religion as well.
You know, we've recently had a chap here professing that christianity was the only true religion and yours was a load of bunkem. Pity you couldn't have got together to prove to the rest of us that both religions are a pile of shit.

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19-08-2014, 03:32 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 03:13 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 02:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Positive claims require positive evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; and claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you claim a god exists, the onus is on you to meet your burden of proof; not on the skeptic to prove you wrong.
Yes, this is correct, I can prove God existence, then it will be your turn to try to refute the proof.

Good luck, every theologian in history has thus far failed. Every sufficient answer to every question throughout human history as always turned out to be "not magic".


(19-08-2014 03:13 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 02:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  We take the attributed assigned to god, and extrapolate what we would expect to see given his attributes. The universe and creatures we would expect to see are vastly different than the universe and creatures we do see. Therefor it is safe to say that either your god doesn't have the attributes traditionally assigned to him by your religion, or he didn't make this universe, or he doesn't exist. Make your choice, and choose wisely.
You missed the 4th option; which is that your extrapolation is wrong!


Potentially, but you can't fault us for the rag-tag bundle of self-contradictory bullshit that theists leave us to work with. But no, I'm sure you'll be able to enlighten all of us as to which is the one, and only, accurate and correct subjective interpretation of your edited and anonymously written holy books... Laughat


(19-08-2014 03:13 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 02:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Also we all know too much about the origins of Judaism and Christianity to take Allah or the Koran any more seriously than the 4th removed plagiarism that it is. Good luck with that...
Not only I can prove existence, I can prove that Islam is the right religion as well.


Yeah, you do that, and I'll be over here making popcorn. I wonder who will get done first?

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19-08-2014, 03:40 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
At work.

Hello Muslim! Big Grin

I admit, I am much looking forwards to your posts and my further enlightenment. Smile

Dang, but why do all the interesting people turn up when I'm buisy?!

Much cheers to all.
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19-08-2014, 04:56 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 03:13 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 02:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Positive claims require positive evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; and claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you claim a god exists, the onus is on you to meet your burden of proof; not on the skeptic to prove you wrong.
Yes, this is correct, I can prove God existence, then it will be your turn to try to refute the proof.

Quote:We take the attributed assigned to god, and extrapolate what we would expect to see given his attributes. The universe and creatures we would expect to see are vastly different than the universe and creatures we do see. Therefor it is safe to say that either your god doesn't have the attributes traditionally assigned to him by your religion, or he didn't make this universe, or he doesn't exist. Make your choice, and choose wisely.
You missed the 4th option; which is that your extrapolation is wrong!

Quote:Also we all know too much about the origins of Judaism and Christianity to take Allah or the Koran any more seriously than the 4th removed plagiarism that it is. Good luck with that...
Not only I can prove existence, I can prove that Islam is the right religion as well.

Give it your best shot, dude. Don't keep us in suspense. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-08-2014, 06:18 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 03:13 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 02:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Positive claims require positive evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; and claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you claim a god exists, the onus is on you to meet your burden of proof; not on the skeptic to prove you wrong.
Yes, this is correct, I can prove God existence, then it will be your turn to try to refute the proof.

Yes, so long as no portion of it relies on a baseless or unproven assertion. The moment you prop any portion of it up with some presupposition, the whole thing will be dismissed (as it should be).

Do you have any proof for God that doesn't require presupposition? Every argument for God's existence that I've heard, except one, requires you to assume God exists in the first place as an unspoken premise of the argument.

So, what do you have for us?
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19-08-2014, 06:51 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 06:18 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 03:13 AM)Muslim Wrote:  Yes, this is correct, I can prove God existence, then it will be your turn to try to refute the proof.

Yes, so long as no portion of it relies on a baseless or unproven assertion. The moment you prop any portion of it up with some presupposition, the whole thing will be dismissed (as it should be).

Do you have any proof for God that doesn't require presupposition? Every argument for God's existence that I've heard, except one, requires you to assume God exists in the first place as an unspoken premise of the argument.
this is called a circular logic; which is not a proof

Quote:So, what do you have for us?
We need to discuss some topics first, what do you understand/accept as a proof?
How to refute a proof?
What premises do we agree on, to build the proof on it?
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19-08-2014, 07:02 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
There is one point I have to make before you carry on and attempt to "prove" Islam is correct. Even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and Islam is correct, I would rather die than be a follower of that benevolent death cult. Islam as an ideology is evil and endorses slavery, belittlement of non-muslims and women and murder. If Allah existed I would rather burn for eternity than lower my moral standards to the level of his followers. Before you start saying that "not all muslims are like the radicals in the middle east" etc etc same old argument, it's true, not all muslims are bad. The problem is that the good muslims are the muslims not practicing Islam as it is supposed to be practiced. ISIS has the perfect examples of perfect muslims.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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