Unintelligent Design
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19-08-2014, 07:08 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 06:51 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 06:18 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Yes, so long as no portion of it relies on a baseless or unproven assertion. The moment you prop any portion of it up with some presupposition, the whole thing will be dismissed (as it should be).

Do you have any proof for God that doesn't require presupposition? Every argument for God's existence that I've heard, except one, requires you to assume God exists in the first place as an unspoken premise of the argument.
this is called a circular logic; which is not a proof

Quote:So, what do you have for us?
We need to discuss some topics first, what do you understand/accept as a proof?
How to refute a proof?
What premises do we agree on, to build the proof on it?

Thanks for showing us you don't have a fucking clue what presupposition and circular reasoning actually mean! Thanks for playing, don't let the door hit you in the ass. Drinking Beverage

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19-08-2014, 10:46 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(03-01-2014 07:14 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 04:56 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Do let us know when you learn how to fix things like congenital blindness,
You may not learn how to fix congenital blindness.
But you may learn how to do things being blind. It is much harder to do things when you are blind.
Different hardship brings different experiences.
Part of the plan is: this life suppose to be hard.

(03-01-2014 04:56 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Down's Syndrome,
You still can learn and progress. This is the point: no matter what kind of trials you have in this life you still can learn/progress.
And we can learn about kindness and compassion.

(03-01-2014 04:56 PM)Impulse Wrote:  and cancer in children; and don't leave out what you learned from it. Dodgy
We learn how to fight cancer. By learning how to fight cancer we progress.
By suffering from cancer we are learning how to help others. When we help others we progress: we become better people.


(03-01-2014 04:56 PM)Impulse Wrote:  You'd probably tell us about medical stuff you learned. I'd tell you I learned God is an asshole.
To give someone an opportunity to learn and to progress is one of the greatest gifts.
Nobody says that it is easy to learn and to progress. It suppose to be hard.

Hi guys new here but this one is for "alla"
Are you saying that you agree or disagree with creationism? Let me ask you this why would "someTHING" inflict such cruelty so that we can ''progress" from it? If you agree to what my first question refers to, you are mistaken. We do not "progress" from illnesses! We "EVOLVE AND ADAPT" just like we have for the last millions of years!!
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19-08-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 10:46 AM)shmmie6689 Wrote:  Hi guys new here but this one is for "alla"
Are you saying that you agree or disagree with creationism? Let me ask you this why would "someTHING" inflict such cruelty so that we can ''progress" from it? If you agree to what my first question refers to, you are mistaken. We do not "progress" from illnesses! We "EVOLVE AND ADAPT" just like we have for the last millions of years!!

Alla hasn't been here since February.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-08-2014, 11:31 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 06:51 AM)Muslim Wrote:  this is called a circular logic; which is not a proof

You're going to have to explain that one.

You give me some "proof" of God. If that proof requires you to assume God exists in the first place as an unspoken consequence, that "proof" is circular. Do you disagree with this?


(19-08-2014 06:51 AM)Muslim Wrote:  We need to discuss some topics first, what do you understand/accept as a proof?
How to refute a proof?
What premises do we agree on, to build the proof on it?

Can it be verified? If not, how can we know it's true? Can it be used to make useful predictions about our world? If not, how is it useful?

Put it this way: if I can take everything you say, and replace "God" with "leprechaun" and say "you can't prove me wrong", you're probably doing a bad job setting up your proof.

Also, you've already said that if you provide a proof, we have to refute it. This looks like you're flirting with setting up a double standard.
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19-08-2014, 11:39 AM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2014 11:50 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 11:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 10:46 AM)shmmie6689 Wrote:  Hi guys new here but this one is for "alla"
Are you saying that you agree or disagree with creationism? Let me ask you this why would "someTHING" inflict such cruelty so that we can ''progress" from it? If you agree to what my first question refers to, you are mistaken. We do not "progress" from illnesses! We "EVOLVE AND ADAPT" just like we have for the last millions of years!!

Alla hasn't been here since February.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure I get credit for that one. Thumbsup

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20-08-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
A theist says "Look how perfect and complex the eye is. How could it have been created through evolution? Obviously, it's a product of intelligent design!"

An atheist replies, "With all its imperfections, how can you call the eye perfect or believe it was created by intelligent design?"

Muslim says:
(19-08-2014 02:39 AM)Muslim Wrote:  You assume how God should create things (based on no proof) then as it is not matching "your assumption" then God is not there Gasp
Facepalm
Muslim, you completely missed the point.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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20-08-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 11:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 10:46 AM)shmmie6689 Wrote:  Hi guys new here but this one is for "alla"
Are you saying that you agree or disagree with creationism? Let me ask you this why would "someTHING" inflict such cruelty so that we can ''progress" from it? If you agree to what my first question refers to, you are mistaken. We do not "progress" from illnesses! We "EVOLVE AND ADAPT" just like we have for the last millions of years!!

Alla hasn't been here since February.

But now we have Muslim: a messenger of Alla!

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20-08-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
I haven't read this whole thread but as a female I always thought it was cruel to have the same orifice that gives birth to a baby be the same orifice that a woman has an orgasm. After giving birth it can take months for women to get back into the swing of things. Then there is the size of a babies head in relation to the size of a women's pelvic. If I were God I'd have designed the human female with an extra inch or two to the pelvic opening so birth was easier and didn't result in episiotomies* or torn up ladies parts. This would be the FIRST thing on my list. Geesh!

* If some of you guys don't know what an episiotomy is, look it up. It aint pretty.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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25-08-2014, 04:53 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(19-08-2014 11:31 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 06:51 AM)Muslim Wrote:  this is called a circular logic; which is not a proof

You're going to have to explain that one.

You give me some "proof" of God. If that proof requires you to assume God exists in the first place as an unspoken consequence, that "proof" is circular. Do you disagree with this?
I totally agree with you


Quote:Can it be verified? If not, how can we know it's true? Can it be used to make useful predictions about our world? If not, how is it useful?

Put it this way: if I can take everything you say, and replace "God" with "leprechaun" and say "you can't prove me wrong", you're probably doing a bad job setting up your proof.
You have a point, Names cannot be proved, only characteristics
But to avoid this will just call him/it G
then I'll prove later that G is God or Allah

Quote:Also, you've already said that if you provide a proof, we have to refute it. This looks like you're flirting with setting up a double standard.
I mean you have to refute it or ....... accept it and become Muslims
Do you agree?
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25-08-2014, 05:07 AM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(25-08-2014 04:53 AM)Muslim Wrote:  You have a point, Names cannot be proved, only characteristics
But to avoid this will just call him/it G
then I'll prove later that G is God or Alla.
I mean you have to refute it or ....... accept it and become Muslims
Do you agree?

Well.... actually names are 'Nouns' and have a useful function within the language of English. Though, hey, if you now want to change 'YOUR' definitions? Sure, though perchance people might not think that's cool/good.

As for the whole 'If you can't refute it==Become Muslim'? Have we even reached a shared, agreed upon thing/definition for 'Proof' for you yet? (Or is that you offering an agreed upon definition of 'Proof'? See, it's getting so long in the tooth that I'm forgetting which is which! Smile )

Much cheers to all
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