Unintelligent Design
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05-01-2014, 03:45 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
FC!!!! Bowing

Wattup?!?! Cool

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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05-01-2014, 03:50 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(05-01-2014 03:45 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  FC!!!! Bowing

Wattup?!?! Cool

Yo! My favorite Heathen!

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05-01-2014, 06:59 PM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2014 07:03 PM by Alla.)
RE: Unintelligent Design
(03-01-2014 09:46 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
Quote:
So Alla - your take on this topic is its fine to torture person A for the sake of helping person B "improve in life skills" and this is Gods great moral plan.
I never said this. We don't have to do evil to each other to improve skills.

Just so I can improve my medicine, which takes a few hundred years God tortures people to test my success.
Just so I can become virtuous by treating sick people and help healing the sick, God provides enough tortured victims for myself to work on my virtues.
Baruch, I have questions for you.
Do you know another way to learn to be virtuous?
How can you KNOW evil if you do not experience it?
How can you learn to overcome something if there is nothing to overcome?
How do Gods know evil?
It is kind of like Russian writer M. Bulgakov said: "what your good will do if there is no evil?"

(03-01-2014 09:46 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Oh and God is so kind as to make it really hard with biological systems being booby-trapped for extremely difficult success - for example cancer cells being similar enough to normal cells therefore making treatment extremely dangerous and add to the suffering and sometimes make things worse - thank the Lord for crude chemotherapy & radiation.
God told us that it will be very, very hard to live in this telestial world. He told us that all kind of things will happen. God said that we will be subjects to natural laws. Illnesses are part of natural laws. We agreed to suffer. We knew that every suffering is worth to pass through. It is very important what we become even when all hell is breaking down on us.


(03-01-2014 09:46 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Perhaps we should also thank the Lord for al the cases of faith healing which caused disease to worsen and neglect medical treatment - thank the Lord who's will is gratuitous torture.
Holy Ghost would never say to neglect medical treatment. This is the point - to LEARN to overcome illness by learning how to treat it. Prayer is also important. Because while or if treatment doesn't help we ask for a miracle.


(03-01-2014 09:46 PM)Baruch Wrote:  ...and for all the centuries of no success or improvement or virtues gained - then what ? Gods tortures of people just becomes a waste of time.
Part of the test is to be subjects to natural laws. If God treated people in ancient times from every illness we would never achieve what we achieved on our own.
God also could NOT explain ancient people about modern science. They were not ready.
As I said all trials are given for personal progress. Humans progress because of hardships.
If we believe Darwin that human ancestors are primates I would say they would never became humans(PROGRESS) if there were no hardships.

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05-01-2014, 07:11 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(04-01-2014 08:35 AM)Baruch Wrote:  
Quote:Alla: ...lots of problems and bad design. Then I have to do/fix lots of things. By doing/fixing lots of things I am LEARNING lots of things. Lack of something makes me more creative person. I am learning to do "miracles" from what I have. "Bad" design is for the purpose to become more creative, more intelligent, more knowledgeable, more productive. Creating things, fixing things also brings happiness.

Alla - I have worked in the neuropharmacology field and I can tell you first hand that designing badly damaged brains IS NOT GOOD for becoming more creative, intelligent or more knowledgeable !!!! eg Gods grand design of a baby with anencephaly (pictured below)- large parts of brain missing. Seriously Fu**ed up design !
If a good designer was interested in humans becoming more creative, intelligent and knowledgeable there are far better brain modifications & improvements which can be made !!!
[Image: anencephaly5re8.jpg]


Hardly the best example of Gods creative offspring destined for intelligence !
Quote Alla...
Quote:Bad" design is for the purpose to become more creative, more intelligent, more knowledgeable, more productive.[/b] Creating things, fixing things also brings happiness.[/

If I am a manufacturer and gave you badly designed table, you ought to get a refund not make excuses of how useful the table might be even if the table has knife like edges to cut your children to pieces.
Part of the design is to be subjects to natural laws. To be subjects to any surprise of Mother Nature. we have to learn how to deal with anything. We have to learn ALL kind of evil/hardship.
This little child didn't live in vain. He/she has physical body. This is important. One day he/she will be resurrected in perfect body and have happiness. Before he/she was born in this body he/she said to Father: "sign me up for this test. I am ready. I want to have eternal life and become like Thee"

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05-01-2014, 07:17 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
Alla, I like that you are here and give us someone to debate with and you obviously aren't a troll (near as I can tell), but there isn't enough time in the day to show how many things are wrong with that last post to Baruch. It's like you're not even trying. In one breath you say WE need to learn to overcome our own hardships and in the same breath you say your god didn't feel he could explain to the ancients about modern medicine because they weren't ready, as if god knows all about modern medicine and won't let us achieve anything until he's ready for us to. Basically you're saying we aren't ready for a cure for HIV or cancer or birth defects yet. That's a sick attitude, and don't even get me started about your Darwin remark.

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05-01-2014, 07:25 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(05-01-2014 07:17 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Alla, I like that you are here and give us someone to debate with and you obviously aren't a troll (near as I can tell), but there isn't enough time in the day to show how many things are wrong with that last post to Baruch. It's like you're not even trying. In one breath you say WE need to learn to overcome our own hardships and in the same breath you say your god didn't feel he could explain to the ancients about modern medicine because they weren't ready, as if god knows all about modern medicine and won't let us achieve anything until he's ready for us to. Basically you're saying we aren't ready for a cure for HIV or cancer or birth defects yet. That's a sick attitude, and don't even get me started about your Darwin remark.
Why do you call it sick attitude?
Yes, we are not ready yet to cure HIV or cancer but we have to do it. There are many things that we have to overcome on our own.
Darwin remark was kind of a joke. We had this joke in Ukraine: even monkey can become a human if it works/does some kind of labor.
Sorry if it was bad joke.

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05-01-2014, 07:30 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
It's sick because you are saying we aren't actually doing anything for ourselves, that we can't achieve until your god says we can. How is that overcoming anything?

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05-01-2014, 07:31 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(05-01-2014 07:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 08:35 AM)Baruch Wrote:  Alla - I have worked in the neuropharmacology field and I can tell you first hand that designing badly damaged brains IS NOT GOOD for becoming more creative, intelligent or more knowledgeable !!!! eg Gods grand design of a baby with anencephaly (pictured below)- large parts of brain missing. Seriously Fu**ed up design !
If a good designer was interested in humans becoming more creative, intelligent and knowledgeable there are far better brain modifications & improvements which can be made !!!
[Image: anencephaly5re8.jpg]


Hardly the best example of Gods creative offspring destined for intelligence !
Quote Alla...

If I am a manufacturer and gave you badly designed table, you ought to get a refund not make excuses of how useful the table might be even if the table has knife like edges to cut your children to pieces.
Part of the design is to be subjects to natural laws. To be subjects to any surprise of Mother Nature. we have to learn how to deal with anything. We have to learn ALL kind of evil/hardship.
This little child didn't live in vain. He/she has physical body. This is important. One day he/she will be resurrected in perfect body and have happiness. Before he/she was born in this body he/she said to Father: "sign me up for this test. I am ready. I want to have eternal life and become like Thee"

You realize that you, or someone you listened to, just made this stuff up, right? There is absolutely no evidence of any of that, and the only reason to believe it is wishful, magical thinking.

Your theology is childish and inconsistent.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-01-2014, 07:39 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(05-01-2014 07:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 07:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  Part of the design is to be subjects to natural laws. To be subjects to any surprise of Mother Nature. we have to learn how to deal with anything. We have to learn ALL kind of evil/hardship.
This little child didn't live in vain. He/she has physical body. This is important. One day he/she will be resurrected in perfect body and have happiness. Before he/she was born in this body he/she said to Father: "sign me up for this test. I am ready. I want to have eternal life and become like Thee"

You realize that you, or someone you listened to, just made this stuff up, right? There is absolutely no evidence of any of that, and the only reason to believe it is wishful, magical thinking.

Your theology is childish and inconsistent.

It's people like Alla that make me so incredulous when someone like Makellen claims the same denominal beliefs. How someone so well read and intelligent can buy the same BS story that this moron eats up. SMH.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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05-01-2014, 07:48 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(05-01-2014 07:39 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 07:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  You realize that you, or someone you listened to, just made this stuff up, right? There is absolutely no evidence of any of that, and the only reason to believe it is wishful, magical thinking.

Your theology is childish and inconsistent.

It's people like Alla that make me so incredulous when someone like Makellen claims the same denominal beliefs. How someone so well read and intelligent can buy the same BS story that this moron eats up. SMH.

Like kc? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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