Unintelligent Design
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06-01-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
Vitamin B12. Forgot that one.

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06-01-2014, 03:51 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(05-01-2014 07:39 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 07:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  You realize that you, or someone you listened to, just made this stuff up, right? There is absolutely no evidence of any of that, and the only reason to believe it is wishful, magical thinking.

Your theology is childish and inconsistent.

It's people like Alla that make me so incredulous when someone like Makellen claims the same denominal beliefs. How someone so well read and intelligent can buy the same BS story that this moron eats up. SMH.

Do I even have to reply to the above comments by Alla about the anencephaly baby ?????
I feel its not even debating anymore - Alla's comments are just deplorable from someone who doesn't understand anything about reality, biology or how to think properly ???? I mean what sort of comments "at least he/she has a body" ? WTF ?
The anencephaly baby is the most botched up design (easily explainable via biology & evolution) but somehow Alla twists it into some wonderful design of her God as per her Holy Ghost the supreme mentor who knows all !

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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06-01-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 03:51 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 07:39 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It's people like Alla that make me so incredulous when someone like Makellen claims the same denominal beliefs. How someone so well read and intelligent can buy the same BS story that this moron eats up. SMH.

Do I even have to reply to the above comments by Alla about the anencephaly baby ?????
I feel its not even debating anymore - Alla's comments are just deplorable from someone who doesn't understand anything about reality, biology or how to think properly ???? I mean what sort of comments "at least he/she has a body" ? WTF ?
The anencephaly baby is the most botched up design (easily explainable via biology & evolution) but somehow Alla twists it into some wonderful design of her God as per her Holy Ghost the supreme mentor who knows all !

I stopped interacting with that idiot when I neg repped her weeks ago. She is either a poe or too stupid to deal with.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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06-01-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
Also on the topic of the requirement for the terrible evils, suffering and Gods mass torture of babies "for us to learn and grow" (Alla's response)

Alla - ever consider that it is possible for humans to build virtues, skills, learn and grow WITHOUT NEEDING TO TORTURE PEOPLE !!!Excl
ConsiderConsiderConsiderConsiderConsiderConsider

I can think of MANY examples far more moral than having a God torture babies for you to have some self development challenges in nurturing you creativity.ExclExclExclExcl


EG:
God can do anything right ?
Imagine a simulator to develop your skills, like a flight simulator where people don't have to die when the plane crashes. You can develop virtue through simulation rather than torturing people.

Just consider how pathetic your response was eg for fighting malaria where a child dies every 45 secs. Clearly there has not been much progress for decades and God just keeps killing and torturing the babies on and on and on day & night.

If you where right Alla then the God would be more like a teacher and guide the way, perhaps develop a simulator or at least inspire progress. In some cases to cure some diseases it has taken humans thousands of years.
A good teacher or father does not deliberately delay and enhance the tortures when no progress is being made !!!!!!!!!ExclExclExcl:excl

That makes God a superfluous torturer, poor teacher, bad designer, bad father and really not something fit for worship if existed.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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06-01-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 12:16 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Here's where Alla's stance completely falls apart: She says we need to go through hardships, suffer the slings and arrows of Mother Nature and disease, etc., that it's all part of the plan and will make us better people. But, what if humans didn't eat the forbidden fruit (or commit her religion's metaphorical ancestral sin)? No paradise lost. Where will we learn to deal with these hardships if we live in a perfect world? Unless god knew we would fail, just like why he created hell, knowing all along we would go there. I call bullshit.
If Adam and Eve didn't partake of the forbidden fruit they would never learn about evil they would never progress. But Heavenly Father knew they will do it. He created all conditions to make it possible. Tree was there, Lucifer was there, 2 laws were given the way that if they partook of the fruit they would be forgiven right away. And they couldn't have children in paradise that is why they would never be punished for not obeying this commandment.
Yes, He knew all along. It was part of the plan. This life is the test. We have to prove ourselves in order to have eternal progression. We have to deal with choices that will lead us weather to progression or to self-destruction.

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06-01-2014, 06:03 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
Ok, I'm with Rev on this one now. I tried, Alla, I really did.

And you completely ignored my earlier post about god letting people achieve things instead of them achieving them on their own.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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06-01-2014, 06:09 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 10:03 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Why would anyone need to learn how do something while blind, with Down's Syndrome, or with Cancer? If those things didn't exist in the first place, there would be no reason to learn about them.
Yes, but then we can say this about any kind of evil or hardship. Then we do not learn. we can not progress without having trials first.
KNOWLEDGE comes from EXPERIENCE. God KNOWS evil. How? From His own experience that is why He is God.
In order to progress someone has to have hardships.

(06-01-2014 10:03 AM)Impulse Wrote:  As for learning to deal with general hardship, there are less cruel hardships that could teach us the same lessons about having the strength to deal with them.
The harder test we overcome the stronger we become. Did you notice this?

(06-01-2014 10:03 AM)Impulse Wrote:  But why do we even need to have hardships? What use is that to any god? An omnipotent god could certainly create a whole universe without hardship for any of us.
He could but then we couldn't become like Him. We can not become like Him without hardship. It is not possible.

(06-01-2014 10:03 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Furthermore, all of this is just while here on Earth, according to your faith. After this, we go to eternal bliss with none of this. So why again did we need to learn about these things? We will be eternally taken care of supposedly by your "wonderful" god anyway after this blip in time here on Earth. Any "education" about cruel hardships will serve no purpose whatsoever.
So you can create your own worlds, your own children and then teach them what you know. You will be their God and their Father and ALL- knowing and ALL-mighty.

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06-01-2014, 06:13 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(05-01-2014 07:30 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  It's sick because you are saying we aren't actually doing anything for ourselves, that we can't achieve until your god says we can. How is that overcoming anything?
I am sorry when did I say this? Or what did I say that you made this conclusion?

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06-01-2014, 06:22 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(05-01-2014 06:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  Part of the test is to be subjects to natural laws. If God treated people in ancient times from every illness we would never achieve what we achieved on our own.
God also could NOT explain ancient people about modern science. They were not ready.

In essence, you are saying people weren't ready for what god already knew, that he only allows us to achieve/know what he lets us achieve. How are humans overcoming adversity if your god controls the achievement/release of knowledge?

But again, you are too far gone. Sorry, I can't help you.

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06-01-2014, 06:29 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 05:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 12:16 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Here's where Alla's stance completely falls apart: She says we need to go through hardships, suffer the slings and arrows of Mother Nature and disease, etc., that it's all part of the plan and will make us better people. But, what if humans didn't eat the forbidden fruit (or commit her religion's metaphorical ancestral sin)? No paradise lost. Where will we learn to deal with these hardships if we live in a perfect world? Unless god knew we would fail, just like why he created hell, knowing all along we would go there. I call bullshit.
If Adam and Eve didn't partake of the forbidden fruit they would never learn about evil they would never progress. But Heavenly Father knew they will do it. He created all conditions to make it possible. Tree was there, Lucifer was there, 2 laws were given the way that if they partook of the fruit they would be forgiven right away. And they couldn't have children in paradise that is why they would never be punished for not obeying this commandment.
Yes, He knew all along. It was part of the plan. This life is the test. We have to prove ourselves in order to have eternal progression. We have to deal with choices that will lead us weather to progression or to self-destruction.

There was no Adam, there was no Eve. Your argument fails. Drinking Beverage

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