Unintelligent Design
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06-01-2014, 06:38 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
Chas, of course I agree with this, but religions are now skirting the sentient A&E by saying the sin came at some time in history with our "first parents." Ugh.

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06-01-2014, 06:46 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 06:22 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 06:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  Part of the test is to be subjects to natural laws. If God treated people in ancient times from every illness we would never achieve what we achieved on our own.
God also could NOT explain ancient people about modern science. They were not ready.

In essence, you are saying people weren't ready for what god already knew, that he only allows us to achieve/know what he lets us achieve. How are humans overcoming adversity if your god controls the achievement/release of knowledge?

But again, you are too far gone. Sorry, I can't help you.

God doesn't control our own achievements. He gives us an opportunity to learn about this world on our own. We are capable to do this. we don't need Him to learn about this world. We HAVE to do ALL WE CAN. this is the part of the plan. Do ONLY all we can.
But we can not learn by ourselves about Him and His judicial laws. This we learn from the revelations from Him.
If God gave us knowledge how to fight cancer we wouldn't do it on our own. It wouldn't be our achievement/our progress.
I believe that God sometimes inspires scientists when they are ready for new knowledge. He gives them ideas but only after He sees that they work hard and honestly. I believe that when scientist after hard work suddenly says "Eureka!!" it is a revelation from God.

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06-01-2014, 06:48 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 06:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 05:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  If Adam and Eve didn't partake of the forbidden fruit they would never learn about evil they would never progress. But Heavenly Father knew they will do it. He created all conditions to make it possible. Tree was there, Lucifer was there, 2 laws were given the way that if they partook of the fruit they would be forgiven right away. And they couldn't have children in paradise that is why they would never be punished for not obeying this commandment.
Yes, He knew all along. It was part of the plan. This life is the test. We have to prove ourselves in order to have eternal progression. We have to deal with choices that will lead us weather to progression or to self-destruction.

There was no Adam, there was no Eve. Your argument fails. Drinking Beverage
You don't have to believe there was no Adam, there was no Eve.

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06-01-2014, 06:49 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 06:46 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 06:22 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  In essence, you are saying people weren't ready for what god already knew, that he only allows us to achieve/know what he lets us achieve. How are humans overcoming adversity if your god controls the achievement/release of knowledge?

But again, you are too far gone. Sorry, I can't help you.

God doesn't control our own achievements. He gives us an opportunity to learn about this world on our own. We are capable to do this. we don't need Him to learn about this world. We HAVE to do ALL WE CAN. this is the part of the plan. Do ONLY all we can.
But we can not learn by ourselves about Him and His judicial laws. This we learn from the revelations from Him.
If God gave us knowledge how to fight cancer we wouldn't do it on our own. It wouldn't be our achievement/our progress.
I believe that God sometimes inspires scientists when they are ready for new knowledge. He gives them ideas but only after He sees that they work hard and honestly. I believe that when scientist after hard work suddenly says "Eureka!!" it is a revelation from God.

^^^^^^^
There is your example of unintelligent design.
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06-01-2014, 07:42 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 05:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  If Adam and Eve didn't partake of the forbidden fruit they would never learn about evil they would never progress. But Heavenly Father knew they will do it. He created all conditions to make it possible. Tree was there, Lucifer was there, ...
Genesis chapter 3 states that there was a talking serpent ("...the most cunning of the animals that God created..."), but there's no mention of this Lucifer fellow.

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06-01-2014, 07:51 PM (This post was last modified: 06-01-2014 08:08 PM by Baruch.)
RE: Unintelligent Design
Dear Lord.

Thankyou Lord for all the abundant blessing everyday. Heart

Thankyou Lord for teaching me critical thinking skills, how to accumulate evidence and guiding myself towards brilliant logicians such as Bertrand Russell and Philosophers such as Karl Popper who taught me about falsification and spotting really bad theories and avoiding woo woo.Idea

Dear Lord, thankyou for teaching me about evolution, speciation, DNA transmission, transposons and retroviruses which keep me fascinated with some of your ghastly & revolting designs - especially those Bot fly's Dermatobia hominis flesh eating maggots which did deep, deep inside and go wiggle wiggle wiggle till we die.Hobo

Dear Lord, well done on your design of the Plasmodium falciparum protozoa and anopheles mosquito - you managed to create a human death count so high by this design that even the best human genocidal tyrants can never beat you - you truly are an awesome Lord at the current count of killing a child every 45 seconds from malaria fever - truly a remarkable achievement.

Dear Lord, there is so much thanks for the humorous people like Christopher Hitchings and George Carlin - how you inspire these infidels amazes me.
Big Grin
Dear Lord, thank you for creating such a humongous universe that is so big it is just ridiculously utterly gianormously massive and I don't even have the right words to describe it - it really does make our pale blue dot of a planet disappear in those deep field hubble images into nothingness.....and speaking of the pale blue dot I cannot forget to thank you for bringing us Cal Sagan, what a beautiful soul.
Angel
Dear Lord, I also thank you for providing the necessary counterarguments, logic and rationality to combat poor argumentation from the likes of William lane Craig and other apologist missionaries. I so much admire the razor sharp knife of a good argument.Smartass
I also thank the Lord for your detailed description according to the apophatic ἀπόφασις, theologians who carefully define you by negation "via negativa" until you become the great unknown nothingness. Oh. I thank the great nothing for all that is.Bowing

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
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06-01-2014, 08:08 PM (This post was last modified: 06-01-2014 08:12 PM by Baruch.)
RE: Unintelligent Design
For those who don't know this guy has a botfly maggot problem
[Image: IMG_0483.JPG]

which grow inside him - until they wiggle wiggle wiggle and he needs some help.

[Image: figure4a.jpg]

They can also grow into the scalp....nasty

[Image: maggot.jpg]

All part of Gods wonderful design
[Image: Myiasis_LifeCycle.gif]

Of course this is all here so we can have some challenges in life from our father deity - practice with tweezers pulling out the maggots before they explode inside.

[Image: figure5a.jpg]
The Godly miracle design itself !

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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06-01-2014, 08:20 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 08:08 PM)Baruch Wrote:  For those who don't know this guy has a botfly maggot problem
[Image: IMG_0483.JPG]

which grow inside him - until they wiggle wiggle wiggle and he needs some help.

[Image: figure4a.jpg]

They can also grow into the scalp....nasty

[Image: maggot.jpg]

All part of Gods wonderful design
[Image: Myiasis_LifeCycle.gif]

Of course this is all here so we can have some challenges in life from our father deity - practice with tweezers pulling out the maggots before they explode inside.

[Image: figure5a.jpg]
The Godly miracle design itself !

Seriously, no spoiler for the effing botfly?? I watched someone wrap their leg up with plastic wrap and then we waited for it to eat its' way out. This crap is nasty. Yuck. Well anyways I was going to have a snack before bed, so thanks for cutting out my extra calories.
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06-01-2014, 09:09 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 07:42 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 05:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  If Adam and Eve didn't partake of the forbidden fruit they would never learn about evil they would never progress. But Heavenly Father knew they will do it. He created all conditions to make it possible. Tree was there, Lucifer was there, ...
Genesis chapter 3 states that there was a talking serpent ("...the most cunning of the animals that God created..."), but there's no mention of this Lucifer fellow.
I know. It is symbolism.

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06-01-2014, 10:11 PM
RE: Unintelligent Design
(06-01-2014 09:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 07:42 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  Genesis chapter 3 states that there was a talking serpent ("...the most cunning of the animals that God created..."), but there's no mention of this Lucifer fellow.
I know. It is symbolism.

Of course it's symbolism - that's what myths are made of. They are tales, not histories.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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