United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
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11-04-2017, 01:39 PM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2017 05:15 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(11-04-2017 12:07 PM)yakherder Wrote:  For everyone against overbooking, I suppose the next question is in regards to whether or not you're willing to pay higher prices should the practice come under enough scrutiny that it ends up falling out of fashion.

I would be, sure. When I need to get somewhere at a given time, delivery of promised services matters.

I understand the economics of ensuring that planes take off at maximum load. I'll pay for the assurance that I will be where I need to be when I need to be there. Overbooking is horseshit because even if seven passengers don't show up and the plane takes off a little light, those passengers have already paid for their tickets, and that payment is not refundable under most circumstances -- so the airline already has that money, and the flight is actually a little cheaper to do (not much cheaper, admittedly) because the plane is carrying a couple thousand pounds less in people and baggage.
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11-04-2017, 01:42 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(11-04-2017 01:33 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 12:44 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Which allows them to sell at a lower profit margin per ticket. I'm not saying it is or isn't right, only that if they adopt a standard that results in less tickets per flight being available, and more seats being empty on the average flight, supply will decrease relative to demand.

Realistically 300 to 900 dollars per flight. You really think this kind of money makes or breaks their profit margin? If everyone shows up, they have to reimburse the spares anyway. A night at a Hotel and a refund. That's not what makes them that more competitive. It's just a gamble at changing a few dimes in hopes of not everybody actually taking the flight.

Everything I've been reading on it says more like about $4k per flight. And I'd venture to guess that if every single major airline in the world has opted to do it after analyzing the statistics, then it's probably significant enough to matter.

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11-04-2017, 01:46 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(11-04-2017 01:39 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 12:07 PM)yakherder Wrote:  For everyone against overbooking, I suppose the next question is in regards to whether or not you're willing to pay higher prices should the practice come under enough scrutiny that it ends up falling out of fashion.

I would be, sure. When I need to get somewhere at a given time, deliver of promised services matters.

I understand the economics of ensuring that planes take off at maximum load. I'll pay for the assurance that I will be where I need to be when I need to be there. Overbooking is horseshit because even if seven passengers don't show up and the plane takes off a little light, those passengers have already paid for their tickets, and that payment is not refundable under most circumstances -- so the airline already has that money, and the flight is actually a little cheaper to do (not much cheaper, admittedly) because the plane is carrying a couple thousand pounds less in people and baggage.

That certainly makes sense while we're sitting here. But, realistically, your average customer just goes to some random discount tickets site and gets the one that's $2 cheaper.

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11-04-2017, 01:47 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
In Europe they sell town to town flights between 29 and 99 Euros. Got to Rome, go to Paris or London, nothing will cost you more than a hundred. So go figure how large the margin is when 4 or 5 people are no shows.

Apart from the fact that a reaction like this one is outlandish by European standards. If the line overbooks, they deal with it by refunding and offering a stay at a Hotel. They would never manhandle anyone that's already on board.

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11-04-2017, 01:53 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(11-04-2017 01:47 PM)abaris Wrote:  In Europe they sell town to town flights between 29 and 99 Euros. Got to Rome, go to Paris or London, nothing will cost you more than a hundred. So go figure how large the margin is when 4 or 5 people are no shows.

Apart from the fact that a reaction like this one is outlandish by European standards. If the line overbooks, they deal with it by refunding and offering a stay at a Hotel. They would never manhandle anyone that's already on board.

The manhandling is a different issue than the concept of overbooking in general. Whatever the increased profit margin might be on any given fight, the fact is that prices would rise without the option of overbooking. If everyone's okay with that, great. But the data in regards to how people purchase tickets suggests otherwise. I'm honestly indifferent.

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11-04-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
Well, Vienna to New York costs between 100 and 350 Euros, depending on the airline. Do you really think, they're making their profit by only selling the ticket? These flights are just the bare bones. You will get hungry or thirsty within 8 to 10 hous. So, your credit card, if you please. Maybe you want Wlan. Again, credit card, please. A movie, there's the cashier. And the prices for all these services are spicy to say the least. If you can go without all of that, remember, you can't take nutrition on board, then you're fine. But hardly anyone does.

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11-04-2017, 02:03 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(11-04-2017 01:47 PM)abaris Wrote:  In Europe they sell town to town flights between 29 and 99 Euros. Got to Rome, go to Paris or London, nothing will cost you more than a hundred. So go figure how large the margin is when 4 or 5 people are no shows.

Apart from the fact that a reaction like this one is outlandish by European standards. If the line overbooks, they deal with it by refunding and offering a stay at a Hotel. They would never manhandle anyone that's already on board.

I don't think they would generally do that in the US, either, and that's why people are so outraged about this. They usually sort this out before boarding. It's unprecedented (as far as I know) to order someone off the plane who's already seated.
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11-04-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(11-04-2017 02:02 PM)abaris Wrote:  Well, Vienna to New York costs between 100 and 350 Euros, depending on the airline. Do you really think, they're making their profit by only selling the ticket? These flights are just the bare bones. You will get hungry or thirsty within 8 to 10 hous. So, your credit card, if you please. Maybe you want Wlan. Again, credit card, please. A movie, there's the cashier. And the prices for all these services are spicy to say the least. If you can go without all of that, remember, you can't take nutrition on board, then you're fine. But hardly anyone does.

Funny how all these cutbacks started to emerge right around the time it became possible for people to price shop at the click of a button. When I was a kid, I remember them going out of their way to fill me with all the snacks and candy I could pack in. Now, pennies make the difference between whether or not their ticket shows up 1st or 20th in the results. When analyzing the data based on what people do vs what they say, the average consumer doesn't really care about service compared to cost. Even when we're talking about very small amounts that ultimately add up.

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11-04-2017, 02:56 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(11-04-2017 02:09 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 02:02 PM)abaris Wrote:  Well, Vienna to New York costs between 100 and 350 Euros, depending on the airline. Do you really think, they're making their profit by only selling the ticket? These flights are just the bare bones. You will get hungry or thirsty within 8 to 10 hous. So, your credit card, if you please. Maybe you want Wlan. Again, credit card, please. A movie, there's the cashier. And the prices for all these services are spicy to say the least. If you can go without all of that, remember, you can't take nutrition on board, then you're fine. But hardly anyone does.

Funny how all these cutbacks started to emerge right around the time it became possible for people to price shop at the click of a button. When I was a kid, I remember them going out of their way to fill me with all the snacks and candy I could pack in. Now, pennies make the difference between whether or not their ticket shows up 1st or 20th in the results. When analyzing the data based on what people do vs what they say, the average consumer doesn't really care about service compared to cost. Even when we're talking about very small amounts that ultimately add up.

You are misremebering most of the degradation in airline service came after they were deregulated.

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11-04-2017, 03:10 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
Oh for fuck's sake. The goddam plane wasn't overbooked after all. I'm not sure I trust their intelligence enough to ever fly with them again.

#sigh
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