United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
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13-04-2017, 11:52 AM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(13-04-2017 11:50 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 11:40 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  False. They have the right to prevent them from boarding but once they are boarded they cannot remove them and that is only for overbooked flights which this was not. They wanted to throw 4 employees with no tickets on the flight.



http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/...gers-.html

There is no clause stating when it can be defined as overbooking. Even if after boarding they then decide to spontaneously add 4 employees, thereby reducing the number of available seats, from that point forward they are by definition overbooked.

If you want to interpret it differently, be my guest. The wording is probably prone to loose interpretation by design.

It is stated in the Contract "Oversold Flight means a flight where there are more Passengers holding valid confirmed Tickets that check-in for the flight within the prescribed check-in time than there are available seats."

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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13-04-2017, 11:55 AM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(13-04-2017 11:48 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 11:12 AM)yakherder Wrote:  By legal contact, no, he was not entitled to it. Given the way the airline handled the situation they deserve whatever public backlash they receive and if they go out of business as a result, I won't feel bad for them. They should treat their customers better. But they're not obligated to. As screwed up as it may seem based on the video, the only one who actually broke the law was the guy who was dragged out.

Several lawyers disagree with this. Had he not been boarded and seated then yes but once that happened the contract states a list of reasons a paying customer can be deseated. We forgot we needed 4 seats for employees is not on that list.

Everything I'm reading says that, though not standard procedure, they are allowed to remove after boarding. The place where I see differing interpretations is whether or not the addition of the employees creates a situation that can be legally defined as overbooking, I suppose at the very least, this incident will force that to be clarified.

Either way it was unprofessional. But I'm not gonna jump on the sympathy bandwagon. I don't approve of the way either side handled the situation.

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13-04-2017, 11:57 AM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(13-04-2017 11:12 AM)yakherder Wrote:  As screwed up as it may seem based on the video, the only one who actually broke the law was the guy who was dragged out.

The police department in question has suspended two (or three?) of the officers involved as it investigates the propriety of their actions ... so your claim here is tentative and perhaps unsupported. You'll have to wait and see like the rest of us.
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13-04-2017, 11:59 AM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(13-04-2017 11:52 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 11:50 AM)yakherder Wrote:  There is no clause stating when it can be defined as overbooking. Even if after boarding they then decide to spontaneously add 4 employees, thereby reducing the number of available seats, from that point forward they are by definition overbooked.

If you want to interpret it differently, be my guest. The wording is probably prone to loose interpretation by design.

It is stated in the Contract "Oversold Flight means a flight where there are more Passengers holding valid confirmed Tickets that check-in for the flight within the prescribed check-in time than there are available seats."

They were still arguably within the prescribed check in time when the number of seats available was reduced. We could play the semantics game all day, and I assume that's exactly what the lawyers will do.

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13-04-2017, 12:01 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(13-04-2017 11:59 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 11:52 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  It is stated in the Contract "Oversold Flight means a flight where there are more Passengers holding valid confirmed Tickets that check-in for the flight within the prescribed check-in time than there are available seats."

They were still arguably within the prescribed check in time when the number of seats available was reduced. We could play the semantics game all day, and I assume that's exactly what the lawyers will do.

Yeah but you missed the Valid Confirmed Tickets. We could or we could have a little laugh instead.




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13-04-2017, 12:11 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(13-04-2017 11:57 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 11:12 AM)yakherder Wrote:  As screwed up as it may seem based on the video, the only one who actually broke the law was the guy who was dragged out.

The police department in question has suspended two (or three?) of the officers involved as it investigates the propriety of their actions ... so your claim here is tentative and perhaps unsupported. You'll have to wait and see like the rest of us.

I suppose it's just the nature of personal relevance that makes me more empathetic towards the officers than to the airline or even the guy who was removed. I'm probably in at least one use of force incident per week and can't help but wonder how quickly I'd get thrown under the bus if my superiors ever came under fire.

From my perspective, if it turns out the airline was in violation of protocol, it should be them that suffers. Not the officers who were, as far as they knew without the benefit of hindsight bias, obligated to remove someone who had been identified to them as needing to be lawfully removed and, judging by the first part of the video, seemed to make every attempt to accomplish that through dialogue before resorting to force.

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13-04-2017, 12:23 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
I think the amount of force required to remove two teeth in one contact is a bit much, given the doctor's advanced age and presumable lack of strength ... not to mention the failure (deliberate?) to lift the obviously-intervening armrest.

I get that due to your profession you might have a bit of bias towards these guys, and find your willingness to admit that refreshing. But that doesn't make the bias any more valid, just as it wouldn't make mine more valid had I had the shit beaten out of me by the cops (I haven't, ftr).

I'm thinking United should invest in ejection seats. Expensive, but still cheaper than the reaming they're about to get.
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13-04-2017, 12:28 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(13-04-2017 12:23 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I'm thinking United should invest in ejection seats. Expensive, but still cheaper than the reaming they're about to get.

They better not give me control of mine. I'd never reach the terminal.

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13-04-2017, 12:30 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
Unrelated to all the arguments, but United's bad PR continues:

Scorpion stings Calgary man on United flight after falling from overhead bin.

Guy was pretty chill about it, saying, "It's just one of those things that happens, right?" He and his wife have also been compensated for their trouble and the sting. Still, having scorpions fall on passengers isn't good for your image amidst a very bad couple of weeks.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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13-04-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: United Airlines looking for a customer service award...
(13-04-2017 12:30 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Unrelated to all the arguments, but United's bad PR continues:

Scorpion stings Calgary man on United flight after falling from overhead bin.

Guy was pretty chill about it, saying, "It's just one of those things that happens, right?" He and his wife have also been compensated for their trouble and the sting. Still, having scorpions fall on passengers isn't good for your image amidst a very bad couple of weeks.

Too bad they couldn't identify it. I had a friend who got stung on the hand by a bark scorpion in Las Vegas when she turned on ceiling fan and it fell off. She said it hurt so bad she wanted to cut her hand off. The larger, black scorpions (forgot the name) we'd come across were much less potent. Little more than an annoyance.

'Murican Canadian
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