Universal healthcare
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27-05-2014, 10:17 AM
Universal healthcare
Are you fir it or agin it.
I live in Canada. I like the idea that if I have a heart attack someone will help no matter what my financial situation is. I do hold to some libertarian views but this is not one of them. Hypocrisy? Perhaps.
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27-05-2014, 10:19 AM (This post was last modified: 27-05-2014 10:28 AM by Elskidor.)
RE: Universal healthcare
For it.

A wise person makes their own decisions; an ignorant one follows public opinion.
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27-05-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: Universal healthcare
(27-05-2014 10:17 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Are you fir it or agin it.
I live in Canada. I like the idea that if I have a heart attack someone will help no matter what my financial situation is. I do hold to some libertarian views but this is not one of them. Hypocrisy? Perhaps.

This should be a basic human right. Healthcare is too important to worry about it being profitable. The US is the leading negative example of how the free market is not the answer to all questions.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-05-2014, 10:24 AM
RE: Universal healthcare
Yes. Everyone should have access to quality healthcare.


Yes, I'd pay taxes to go towards it with no issue as well.
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27-05-2014, 10:36 AM
RE: Universal healthcare
I'm for it 100%, and I might add that the medical profession could do with showing people some compassion and dignity.

At least here in the US , you feel like you're cattle being herded and treated with cold hearted disdain,by doctors and staff, because your sick. Everytime I go to the doctors, I feel like I need to walk on eggs because I've interrupted their more important lives.

Dont tell me to find a new doctor either, this is the same at almost every single one (and between the wife and I, we've been to 100s), specialists are even worse, god cant come close to the superiority complex these fuckers have.

Oops..... sorry, this is a touchy subject for me.

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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27-05-2014, 10:44 AM
RE: Universal healthcare
(27-05-2014 10:36 AM)War Horse Wrote:  I'm for it 100%, and I might add that the medical profession could do with showing people some compassion and dignity.

At least here in the US , you feel like you're cattle being herded and treated with cold hearted disdain,by doctors and staff, because your sick. Everytime I go to the doctors, I feel like I need to walk on eggs because I've interrupted their more important lives.

Dont tell me to find a new doctor either, this is the same at almost every single one (and between the wife and I, we've been to 100s), specialists are even worse, god cant come close to the superiority complex these fuckers have.

Oops..... sorry, this is a touchy subject for me.

I've been very lucky and both my PCP and OB-GYN are -fantastic- and kind doctors. But I know what you mean, I've had a lot of super shitty ones as well. You can see the people that are there for money, and those that are there because they want to help people. Don't give up good sir, I promise good ones exist...they are just much harder to come by (Which i suppose is true for most things in life) Smile
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27-05-2014, 10:56 AM
RE: Universal healthcare
(27-05-2014 10:44 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(27-05-2014 10:36 AM)War Horse Wrote:  I'm for it 100%, and I might add that the medical profession could do with showing people some compassion and dignity.

At least here in the US , you feel like you're cattle being herded and treated with cold hearted disdain,by doctors and staff, because your sick. Everytime I go to the doctors, I feel like I need to walk on eggs because I've interrupted their more important lives.

Dont tell me to find a new doctor either, this is the same at almost every single one (and between the wife and I, we've been to 100s), specialists are even worse, god cant come close to the superiority complex these fuckers have.

Oops..... sorry, this is a touchy subject for me.

I've been very lucky and both my PCP and OB-GYN are -fantastic- and kind doctors. But I know what you mean, I've had a lot of super shitty ones as well. You can see the people that are there for money, and those that are there because they want to help people. Don't give up good sir, I promise good ones exist...they are just much harder to come by (Which i suppose is true for most things in life) Smile

Yeah, I know you're right. Problem is, around here anyway, that the staff take the same if not worse attitude than the doctors. Like their doing you a favor. Sad

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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27-05-2014, 10:58 AM
RE: Universal healthcare
I live in Canada too and lived in the US as well for 7 years

Everything in economics is tradeoffs, there are no quick fixes or free lunches, just tradeoffs. Dogmatic assertions like "healthcare is a universal right" shoulc be off limits because they are fallatious at best, just like saying "a minimum income is a universal right" would be problematic for obvious reasons.

In the US you dont necessarilly have completely free market health care. For example a homeless person visits the ER for a critical surgery, he is guaranteed to be taken even if he is completely unable to pay. He is treated and is discharged. The bill is passed on to the rest of the patients in the form of higher prices and rates. Another thing that happens routinely in the US is that nonprofit hospitals receive State and Federal funding where they are incentivized to charge ridiculous prices for things like medications in order to appear that they are running at a loss and receive further govt funding. This is one of the reasons healthcare is much more expensive in the US than in any other developed country.

Having said that the pros of the US system pre-obamacare are shorter wait times for critical surgeries and interventions and a better service (due to competition) than the Canadian system. The comparison is days of waiting for life saving surgery in the US to months in Canada. This discrepancy in wait times could be a diference of life and death. The US also has more incentives for people to become doctors due to the higher wages and so on, so you have a greater number of doctors per patient (which in turn causes less wait time, higher service quality, etc)

The cons of the US as oposed to the Canadian system is that uninsured people are less likely to fall into great debt because of unforeseen medical procedures, the US wastes a significant percentage more than Canada in overhead or administrative costs in relation to actual medication, treatment and care costs. That is to say, more money goes into the clerical aspects of health care than the tangential health care services received per patient. The reason for this has been argued to be a greater amount of "middle men" between the patient and doctor in the US comprised of Insurance companies and clerical workers at a given hospital, but that's still debated. And last but not least the superficial "unfairness" the US system seems to have by discriminating for income in health care which some people in this thread have channeled.

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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30-05-2014, 07:53 AM
RE: Universal healthcare
hmm..... touchy subject.

Do I think everyone should have access to care? Yes. Do I think that it's realistically possible to make it free to everyone? No. Affordable? Maybe.

First you have to deal with the underlying problems that make health care so expensive. Open up the borders and allow importation of cheap drugs, for example. Make college education (and medical school) completely free. De-couple insurance from employment. Reduce administration and overhead from hospitals and health centers. Remove direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs. Perhaps we could give more money to teaching hospitals and research hospitals that do new and experimental procedures.
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30-05-2014, 09:33 AM
RE: Universal healthcare
If any society gets to a certain point and does not take care if it's weakest and poorest, then that society is fucked

The secret to a happy life is lowering your expectations to the point where they are already met
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