Universal healthcare in the US
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
30-03-2017, 02:58 PM
RE: Universal healthcare in the US
(30-03-2017 02:22 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  The bottom line is we can’t get there from here without significant reductions in the cost of healthcare here. The question is how do we do that?

First, the health insurance companies in the USA are corporations, so their first loyalty is to their stockholders who want a profit. Government-run health care would put most of them (deservedly) out of business, so expect a fight. Converting to a non-profit system would lower the cost, though not enough.

Second, medical professionals have to maintain expensive malpractice insurance, which drives up their own cost to stay in business. If the government were to employ civilian medical personnel like they do military medical, then there goes the separate malpractice insurance. Since this would put the insurers and the malpractice lawyers out of business, expect another fight. This would also lower costs, though perhaps not enough.

Third, there is a question of what things insurance should cover, and what should be considered "optional" service. Expect the Ridiculous Right to fight valiantly against any coverage of birth control, abortion, immunizations, preventive exams or maternity care, even though those things actually save money overall. Hobo

I don't see it happening any time soon.

I’ll be a story in your head, but that’s okay, because we’re all stories in the end. Just make it a good one, eh? Because it was, you know. It was the best.
The Doctor
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Rockblossom's post
30-03-2017, 03:02 PM
RE: Universal healthcare in the US
(30-03-2017 02:48 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(30-03-2017 02:22 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  The problem with this is we simply can’t afford it without significant reductions in the cost of US healthcare.

If you cut out the middle man, aka the profit oriented insurance companies, the costs will reduce itself.

The US ranges at number 31 when it comes to life expectancy and spends much more than other countries that range higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...expectancy

The money ends up in the pockets of some corporate suits and isn't spent on bettering the health of the population.

As I said in the post before yours eliminating profits alone isn't nearly enough. As for lower life expectancy goes that has as least as much to do with our life style choices as it does availability of healthcare. On average we live less healthy life styles than they do. This leads to higher rates of chronic illness such as diabetes, heart disease and cancer. Chronic illnesses such as these require treatment more often and the treatment is expensive. This is a major factor in why healthcare cost more here on average.

I’d like to say you can't fix stupid and we’re just fucked, but in this case I don’t believe that. Better education could fix a lot of this part of the problem. Unfortunately fixing our education system is a separate expensive problem. Plus we’re at least a generation away from raising a generation of kids that aren’t too stupid to take care of themselves enough to significantly lower rates of chronic illness.

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

[Image: anigrey.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Popeye's Pappy's post
30-03-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Universal healthcare in the US
(30-03-2017 02:43 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Very interesting breakdown.

Big for-profit Pharma says it takes hundreds of millions to take a new drug to market, between research, trial, marketing etc. Many drugs never make it so the ones that do must subsidize the cost of the ones that do not.

Hospitals are for profit enterprises. The talented doctors who have spent 10-15 years in school to practice medicine and leave with student loans in the hundreds of thousands might have never gone into medicine if the payout wasn’t there.

The question becomes how to change the entire system. How do you motivate Big Pharma to invest the kind of money it requires to do the research and the doctors to sacrifice so much time and money to become doctors without a payout?

I’m not defending the system here, I’m posing questions that I think need answers.

So far it has been a nightmare for my family. Our premiums are $1,700 a month, you read that right. We are self-employed so we carry the full burden. We make too much to receive any subsidy. We have an ongoing conversation on should we self-insure, that is go without insurance and set aside the premium money in an escrow account in the event of hospitalization or catastrophic illness, but then we see what those bills can amount to and we just can’t take that chance. So we continue to pay the crippling rates. Those rates are on top of our $5,000 deductible per person!

It is fucking insane.

Gasp Holy shit FC...
For that kind of cash I'd self-insure with a DNR kicker.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Universal healthcare in the US
(30-03-2017 02:57 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(30-03-2017 02:53 PM)Emma Wrote:  I don't foresee the Trump administration actually working to fix the real problems with the ACA, so the US is still fucked on that score for at least another 4 years. Angry

In my opinion the US is fucked until money is thrown out of politics. As long as corporations are allowed to bribe politicians on a large scale, nothing will change.

This is a given...

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

[Image: anigrey.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Popeye's Pappy's post
30-03-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: Universal healthcare in the US
(30-03-2017 03:02 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Chronic illnesses such as these require treatment more often and the treatment is expensive. This is a major factor in why healthcare cost more here on average.

Lower life expectancy also because many people aren't covered. Don't live under the delusion that US citizens have a less healthy lifestyle than Europeans. Not in this day and age if it ever was true.

Living healthy is a privilege you have to be able to afford. Especially when it comes to nutrition That is true for the US as well as other countries. The difference being that in other countries people are covered when they have a chronic disease.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2017, 03:35 PM
RE: Universal healthcare in the US
The best solution as I see it is a two tier structure. A government medical system - where the medical care is free to the user - and provides a reasonable level of care. The doctors in this system would get their education from the state, and their wages would be equivalent to a cop or a teacher. Additionally, they would be shielded from most malpractice suits.

The second tier would be basically what we have now, with the doctors allowed to charge what they like, and would be responsible for the cost of their own education. They also would not be shielded form litigation as a government doctor is.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like onlinebiker's post
30-03-2017, 03:52 PM
RE: Universal healthcare in the US








The problem:





The solution(s):




Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
30-03-2017, 04:16 PM
RE: Universal healthcare in the US
(30-03-2017 03:35 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The best solution as I see it is a two tier structure. A government medical system - where the medical care is free to the user - and provides a reasonable level of care. The doctors in this system would get their education from the state, and their wages would be equivalent to a cop or a teacher. Additionally, they would be shielded from most malpractice suits.

The second tier would be basically what we have now, with the doctors allowed to charge what they like, and would be responsible for the cost of their own education. They also would not be shielded form litigation as a government doctor is.

What would prevent a 'state' educated doctor switching to private practice?

Perhaps state funded loans for medicine degrees, with a portion of the debt forgiven for each year in public health?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ukatheist's post
30-03-2017, 04:23 PM
RE: Universal healthcare in the US
The financing for Medicare is quite complex but essentially boils down to the Hospital Insurance Trust Fund ( Part A ) and the Supplemental Medical Insurance Trust Fund ( Part B and others ).

All workers pay the Part A Medicare tax and people who are enrolled for Medicare pay the Part B portion.

Strip the caps off the medicare and social security taxes so that rich motherfuckers pay it on their entire incomes and you will greatly solve the financing problems of medicare and social security.

If people live in a county in which there is only a single insurer participating in the exchanges or where the premiums are unaffordable, let those people sign up for Medicare. We'll see how long it takes these criminal insurance companies to work out a deal among themselves to shut out the public option.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2017, 04:43 PM
RE: Universal healthcare in the US
(30-03-2017 04:16 PM)ukatheist Wrote:  
(30-03-2017 03:35 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The best solution as I see it is a two tier structure. A government medical system - where the medical care is free to the user - and provides a reasonable level of care. The doctors in this system would get their education from the state, and their wages would be equivalent to a cop or a teacher. Additionally, they would be shielded from most malpractice suits.

The second tier would be basically what we have now, with the doctors allowed to charge what they like, and would be responsible for the cost of their own education. They also would not be shielded form litigation as a government doctor is.

What would prevent a 'state' educated doctor switching to private practice?

Perhaps state funded loans for medicine degrees, with a portion of the debt forgiven for each year in public health?

Considering who grants a license to practice medicine - I don't think that would really be an issue....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: