Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
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19-11-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
(19-11-2016 09:33 AM)Helpmeouttherabbithole Wrote:  Can you explain how you brainwash yourself?

I could, but you'd get brainwashed. They frown on that around here. Laugh out load

I've brainwashed myself into becoming The Living Word of Gwynnite (yeah, it's all capital like that) over the course of 16 years, a million mile journey that began with a single step:

The brain went, you keep drawing that stupid girl (Gwyneth Paltrow), you're gonna be totally obsessed.
The heart went, long hair, don't care.

The rest is history. (hysteria? hysterical?) Big Grin

But yeah, you get to wanting something to be true, you get to listening solely to positive reinforcements, you get excessively focused... ya get brainwashed.

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19-11-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
(19-11-2016 09:42 AM)Helpmeouttherabbithole Wrote:  
(19-11-2016 09:36 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Developing a nose for bullshit isn't too difficult, if they start talking about universal this or that, and then pretend to have the answers, they're full of it.

Here's a helpful BS flag- if they like to use verbs as nouns to sound profound, Here's a quote from Deepak Chopra:

In the midst of movement and chaos, keep stillness inside of you.

Such a statement is treating the word stillness as a thing that you can control, it's a ridiculous statement, what if you state something with more clarity and less woo?

Don't panic.

Chopra just uses more words to express a very simplistic concept, but it provides the illusion that it's profound.

The illusion of substance is at the core of most BS.Thumbsup

Yes I am struggling with these notions of the metaphysical atm, quantum physics - it all sounded so interesting, now I want to know if science actually agrees with any of the stuff being promoted as spiritual science

Spiritual "science" requires faith, not evidence. Right there that should set of your BS alarm.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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19-11-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
(19-11-2016 10:03 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(19-11-2016 09:33 AM)Helpmeouttherabbithole Wrote:  Can you explain how you brainwash yourself?

I could, but you'd get brainwashed. They frown on that around here. Laugh out load

I've brainwashed myself into becoming The Living Word of Gwynnite (yeah, it's all capital like that) over the course of 16 years, a million mile journey that began with a single step:

The brain went, you keep drawing that stupid girl (Gwyneth Paltrow), you're gonna be totally obsessed.
The heart went, long hair, don't care.

The rest is history. (hysteria? hysterical?) Big Grin

But yeah, you get to wanting something to be true, you get to listening solely to positive reinforcements, you get excessively focused... ya get brainwashed.

Well, yes, Gwynnie is the patron saint of TTA Wink

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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19-11-2016, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2016 10:44 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
Also:
Lifehacker guide
...and
http://skepdic.com/mindcont.html

These links were quickly scanned, so they may suck (just thought I'd throw that warning in there) but I was reading further when the stupid brain goes... yeah, let's go interrogate a quantum physicist about spirit science and see how that goes. Laugh out load

But then the stupid brain kicked out a name...





...this guy. Big Grin

If there was any kind of decent evidence of quantum woo I'm pretty sure ol' Michio would be singing it from the rafters.

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19-11-2016, 10:16 AM
RE: Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
(19-11-2016 09:33 AM)Helpmeouttherabbithole Wrote:  Can you explain how you brainwash yourself? Do you hypnotise yourself remotely?

That's easy. Just keep looking at the same shit over and over and over and over and over and........... it becomes your reality.

That's how you were brainwashed into religion in the first place. It was presented to a child that is soaking things up like a sponge, over and over and over and over......

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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19-11-2016, 11:00 AM
RE: Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
(19-11-2016 08:48 AM)Helpmeouttherabbithole Wrote:  I'm not an atheist at present - tbh I wish I was.

Do you believe in god?

(19-11-2016 08:48 AM)Helpmeouttherabbithole Wrote:  Please don't ridicule me - I was raised in fundamentalist Christianity and successfully indoctrinated myself as a young adult to the point of an actual breakdown when I tried to find mercy in the doctrine of eternal hell.

There are many posters here who come from religious backgrounds. If you poke around the site a bit, there are a couple of threads about it.

Here's one:
deconversion stories

Sorry to hear you had a breakdown. Hope you are better now. I have to admit though, I'm not sure how you get mercy in eternal hell...

(19-11-2016 08:48 AM)Helpmeouttherabbithole Wrote:  I suppose I want to discover that as well as beyond fortune telling the occult is probably all bogus - so where's my evidence? Help

Easy answers are not always the right answers. Religion offers easy answers. Responses like "god's will", god's plan", "god did it" are the easy answer. The right answers take education which takes time.

Check out this site:
James Randi

For years, James Randi has offered a "million dollar prize" for anyone who could demonstrate paranormal abilities in a laboratory situation. Not only has no one done it, most won't try, especially the famous ones like Sylvia Brown.

Hope all that helps.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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19-11-2016, 11:40 AM
RE: Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
This isn't the Support Forum, you may want to post in there.
That said, I do not have this experience, having been atheist from the very beginning. I will float out a way of thinking, and see if it passes the smell test.
These ideas you have do not come from within, you read or listen to them somewhere.
You have a limited time here, so it is valuable. You need to be absolutely mercenary about it. Any time you read something, ask yourself, what's in it for me?
What's in it for me? What does it do for me?
If this idea says it will improve your life or spirit being or anything like that, next question. HOW? How does this happen? Show me the science. If it smells in any way get that shit out of your head and move on.
Soon enough you will get tired of holding bullshit up and pretending it smells like daisies. This sounds like a very cynical mean spirited way of thinking, but it is quite the opposite. Once you are done trying to reconcile this kind of thing, you will have the time and peace to be as chill as you can be.
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19-11-2016, 01:38 PM
RE: Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
Thanks, Bart erhman was very helpful YouTube viewing for me when I left Christianity and recently Iv become rather attatched to Derren Brown and James Randi - but I haven't seen anything debunking the more esoteric religious stuff - Rosicrucian/Theosophy/golden dawn/bota that sort of stuff which I'm hoping to find to let go of this fear or idea that they have secret knowledge.

I'm particuarly frightened by max Heindels astrology at the moment - and I'm sure this might seem hilarious if your not but I need to know how not to be. Christianity doesn't frighten me any more - on the other hand, I just seem to have walked right back into beliefs - ideas that science is going to or has proved the spiritual, that Atlantis was real, chakras, kundalini all this stuff and I was hoping someone can come along and explain why it's all still bogus even if you add a K on the end of magic
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19-11-2016, 02:06 PM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2016 02:26 PM by jennybee.)
RE: Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
(19-11-2016 01:38 PM)Helpmeouttherabbithole Wrote:  Thanks, Bart erhman was very helpful YouTube viewing for me when I left Christianity and recently Iv become rather attatched to Derren Brown and James Randi - but I haven't seen anything debunking the more esoteric religious stuff - Rosicrucian/Theosophy/golden dawn/bota that sort of stuff which I'm hoping to find to let go of this fear or idea that they have secret knowledge.

I'm particuarly frightened by max Heindels astrology at the moment - and I'm sure this might seem hilarious if your not but I need to know how not to be. Christianity doesn't frighten me any more - on the other hand, I just seem to have walked right back into beliefs - ideas that science is going to or has proved the spiritual, that Atlantis was real, chakras, kundalini all this stuff and I was hoping someone can come along and explain why it's all still bogus even if you add a K on the end of magic

Well, as a yoga practitioner and an atheist, I can fill you in on the chakras and kundalini.

Chakras are spiritual centers in the body and each are assigned various colors. Some people will put stones or crystals, depending on Chakra color on the various chakra centers of the body. Do I do this? No. Why? Because there have been no scientific studies to prove that crystals have anything to do with health and well-being (and yes, there were studies done on this). All that said, I do think you can sometimes create a placebo effect, but that's something that is natural, explainable, and in no way otherworldly. I will add that I do utilize chakras (without crystals) in my practice, but I use them as a focal point for relaxation and not a magic thing.

Kundalini, which I sometimes practice, uses kriyas which are an assortment of postures, breathing techniques, and chanting. It definitely helps you relax, but connect to a higher spiritual realm? No, unless you consider blissed out relaxation to be a higher spiritual realm.

Now are there some people who believe they have tapped into a spiritual field when doing yoga--yes--and it would make sense that *some* people may feel that way. This is because you have removed all distraction and calmed your mind, which allows you to think more clearly without the extra static of every day life. You add in the power of suggestion via the 8 limbs of yoga (one of which is to connect to the divine) and there you may have some people finding spiritual enlightenment. It's no different than people sitting in a church/other religious area and singing and praying with a community and feeling the presence Jesus/Ganesh/Zeus/Enlil/etc. depending on your religious proclivity.

As for astrology, it's no different than reading a fortune from a fortune cookie. Horoscopes are so vague that they could literally describe anyone.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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19-11-2016, 02:35 PM
RE: Universal laws and mystery schools - debunked?
(19-11-2016 01:38 PM)Helpmeouttherabbithole Wrote:  I'm particuarly frightened by max Heindels astrology at the moment - and I'm sure this might seem hilarious if your not but I need to know how not to be.

Here to read.
Here to interact.

^Phil Plait's consideration of astrology and his cosmoquest forum. He's an astronomer and science communicator. Wink

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