Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
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18-06-2011, 10:55 PM
 
RE: Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
Lilith Pride,

You are unwilling to relinquish your mistake assumptions that stem from your hostility and unloving self which is inherently selfish.

The Bible teaches every Christian is a saint and we who are in Christ a royal priesthood.

From the Head which is Jesus to the body of Christ each member forms part of that body.

Does a foot say to the eye this is unfair? Of course not.
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18-06-2011, 11:06 PM
RE: Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
How wonderfully you've proven my point. Look at demonstrable hierarchies, and give me a good example within the world that does not lead to horrid acts.

I didn't deny christianity as a child when first offered it because I was selfish. I denied it because the first suggestion coming out of the Sunday school classes was that animals are less than humans. I am perfectly willing to accept that all life forms have just as much validity. That is in no way selfish. In fact at the time I was rather selfless desiring not to exist, because I viewed the world as a horrible cess pool (similar to the views the baptists around me had, but without the silver lining of the afterlife).

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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18-06-2011, 11:11 PM
 
RE: Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
Lilith Pride,

Who did Jesus kill? You ascribe things to Jesus that are not His will. That's ugly pride.

Desiring not to exist being made in God's image is the surest way to Hell like suicide. God you made you perfect.

Of course animals are not like humans for they don't have God-consciousness. They will cease to exist but we should still treat them well. In eternity future in the New City there are no more animals. Think of the care God took with the animals in the ark. Even the millennial kingdom the lamb and the lion will lay down together in peace. What great care this must take! Amen.




I encourage those who are genuine to discuss further here,
http://biblocality.com/forums/list.php?c...15-to-2022

The disingenuous I won't hear from again.
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19-06-2011, 12:31 AM
RE: Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
When did I say Jesus killed someone? I was asking you to discuss demonstrable hierarchies. The secular ones. I don't believe the bible is wholly accurate so I would prefer using other examples of what hierarchies do in action.

If you want to know a horrible act caused by Christianity though turn to the dark ages. It's not caused by god, but it's caused by beliefs carried out by God's followers.

Plenty of christians consider this world a terrible pit of despair and can't wait for the rapture. I'm sure you've met some. I grew up around these people, I was never suicidal and I was discussing myself as a child. I was discussing the fact that for a long time there was absolutely no importance in my individuality.

And animals are like humans, they are alive. I see no examples that can prove they have no consciousness. Animals when observed are generally seen to have unique characteristic that make them individual to others of their species in small behaviors. This would mean that they have individual characteristics and are not just automatons as was believed for a long period of time. Without being able to communicate with them you can't suggest superiority. You can't determine their definite capabilities, because any time we go to observe them, they observe us. And neither side realizes what the other is doing all that well.

I consider plants to be alive as well, so I'm not even stopping at animals. I view all life as equal, that is a very selfless trait because I am not asking to be superior. I at times desire favor as does any social creature, but that does not negate my overall views.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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19-06-2011, 03:39 AM
RE: Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
I have read enough stupidity and therefore I will retreat from this debate.

@ Parture:

I couldn't find my glasses this morning, I was alone in the house. Therefore transexual leprechauns must have hidden them. It's the only logical explanation.

Thinks that's ridiculous? Well that's how you reason. You have the right to react, but having the last word doesn't make you a winner. I'll still think you're a complete retard that hasn't got the slightest knowledge of science or theology, but cherry picks some passages and makes up historical events to scare others. It might work when indoctrinating your kids (poor children...) with bullshit, but it doesn't work on us.

If God wants me to praise him, he has to give REAL proof of his existence. If he does, I will personally lick his ass clean for the rest of my days. Come on God, ridicule me, show yourself... asshole.

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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19-06-2011, 09:21 AM
RE: Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
Parture,
Little thought experiment here.
What would you call someone who, dedicated their life to helping others, donated every penny they had, helped organize/fund multiple charities, and worked to make peoples last moments painless, who was also an atheist?

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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19-06-2011, 09:43 AM
RE: Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
Parture Sorry for the delay in rejoining the fray….
“watchman,

While all of these things are interesting things to discuss, suffice it to say you are possessed by a mistaken assumption on every point, e.g. you assume there are no cliffs but there are some. Furthermore, none of these items are of primary concern because they don't impact the main proof for the resurrection of Jesus.

You still fail to find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs claiming to have seen Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings.

Deal with this first and foremost!”


No , No no ,you are not getting away with that.
It is not sufficient to say that I am possessed by a mistaken assumption on every point.
I require some evidence please.

You say “you assume there are no cliffs but there are some.”

I assume nothing. I checked maps ,satellite images and textual resources regarding the terrain around the Sea of Galilee. You obviously haven’t.

Now you say “but there are some”. Very well ,I may be mistaken , please enlighten me. Tell me the location of these cliffs ,a grid reference on a map would do or perhaps their longitude and latitude or even a general description of their position with regard to the Sea.

You go on to say ,
” none of these items are of primary concern because they don't impact the main proof for the resurrection of Jesus.”

Wrong .

Your only “proof” for the resurrection comes from the gospels. I maintain that the gospels are false .

If I am correct you have no “proof”. If I can prove Mark ,generally acknowledged as the first Gospel ,as false ,then it follows that both Matthew & Luke must be false also as large parts of them were copied wholesale from Mark. Once you have accepted this I will then go on to demonstrate how and why the fourth gospel (so called John) came to be written.

As far as a naturalistic explanation for the claims of seeing Jesus post crucifixion , how about this ,Several of the young Rabbi’s followers decide to create an organisation to allow them to continue being lauded and respected after their charismatic meal ticket is gone. (My money is on Peter & James who bring in Saul/Paul to organise and spread the new “Church”).

Or there is the possibility of Jesus actually surviving the crucifixion, it was not unknown. Indeed there is a reference to just such an event in the writings of the contemporary Josephus in his auto biography “The Life of Flavius Josephus” Chapter 75.
And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as I came back,I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance.
I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands, while the third recovered
."

I await your comments with interest.

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
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19-06-2011, 01:07 PM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2011 01:27 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
(19-06-2011 03:39 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  I couldn't find my glasses this morning, I was alone in the house. Therefore transexual leprechauns must have hidden them. It's the only logical explanation.

Were they intersexed transsexual lesbian leprechauns? 'Cause if so Lilith may have to account for her whereabouts.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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19-06-2011, 02:10 PM
RE: Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
(19-06-2011 01:07 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Were they intersexed transsexual lesbian leprechauns? 'Cause if so Lilith may have to account for her whereabouts.

That depends of the gospel and the translation Big Grin

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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19-06-2011, 02:33 PM
 
RE: Unless You Believe Who I Say I Am You Will Die in Your Sins - John 8.24
(19-06-2011 09:21 AM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  Parture,
Little thought experiment here.
What would you call someone who, dedicated their life to helping others, donated every penny they had, helped organize/fund multiple charities, and worked to make peoples last moments painless, who was also an atheist?
I would call that vain because you are stilling going to Hell because you reject the only way to salvation through Jesus Christ.
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