Unlikely Destination Argument (Similar to One Less God) Thoughts?
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02-04-2016, 03:30 PM
RE: Unlikely Destination Argument (Similar to One Less God) Thoughts?
(01-04-2016 11:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 06:17 PM)embeddedwes Wrote:  The limit of 1 over infinity is 0 and the limit of 0 over infinity is 0,

I don't think that's right.

It's not.

The limit of 1/x as x goes to infinity is 0. Zero over anything is zero; no limits are involved.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-04-2016, 03:32 PM
RE: Unlikely Destination Argument (Similar to One Less God) Thoughts?
(02-04-2016 03:28 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 03:25 PM)embeddedwes Wrote:  Basically because it can't be known for certain that there are an infinite number of gods - in much the same way we don't know for certain whether there's 0 or 1 or 10 or 50 god(s) then any argument of probability or statistics related to N (the number of God's) is going to be inaccurate due to the lack of complete (or at least statistically significant) amounts of information?

No. Because we have no information at all about what a god is, how it might be detected, what conditions must be true in order to facilitate its existence, or any number of other things, it is not possible to assign any meaningful probability to the idea of one existing.

Gotcha, ok that makes sense. Thanks!
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02-04-2016, 03:55 PM
RE: Unlikely Destination Argument (Similar to One Less God) Thoughts?
That argument might work if all the probabilities were equal. Much like tossing an infinite-sided die and trying to roll a 42. In order for your argument to be sound, you would need to demonstrate what the individual probabilities are, which in turn involves properly understanding an infinite number of higher beings, many of which are infinite in and of themselves.

You can demonstrate this with a simple coin toss. Possible outcomes include:

- Heads
- Tails
- Lands on edge (Somebody got grant money for this?)
- Stuck in rafters
- Devoured in mid-toss by passing copper hawk
- Doesn't exist, you're asleep and dreaming
- Spontaneously vanishes because of quantum
- Miraculously disappeared by god #1
- Miraculously disappeared by god #2
- Miraculously disappeared by god #3
...
- Miraculously disappeared by god #infinity

Giving each of those probabilities equal weighting would lead you to believe that the coin should never come down heads or tails and would be a cheap and effective practical demonstration that no god exists. It's obviously wrong.

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02-04-2016, 06:56 PM
RE: Unlikely Destination Argument (Similar to One Less God) Thoughts?
0 over infinity is an indeterminate form -- it can be anything or nothing. However the limit of 0/n as n approaches infinity is 0, which is what you seem to be trying to say and what Wolfram Alpha is likely confirming.

As pointed out, though, there's no reason to assume an equal and uniform weighting between infinite possibilities... and depending on the order of infinity, doing so might violate the rules of probability.

In any case, I would advise you not to deploy this argument, in this or any other form, against anyone save those of the most flimsy of faiths. It is unlikely to have an impact. Instead, I would suggest that you develop a line of reasoning that has them questioning their epistemology -- that is, the reasons they came to believe in the first place.
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03-04-2016, 12:28 AM
RE: Unlikely Destination Argument (Similar to One Less God) Thoughts?
can someone tell me what this argument is really about

I only read the OP but the whole zero and infinity talk sounds like pascal's wager
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03-04-2016, 08:28 AM
RE: Unlikely Destination Argument (Similar to One Less God) Thoughts?
(02-04-2016 03:25 PM)embeddedwes Wrote:  Basically because it can't be known for certain that there are an infinite number of gods - in much the same way we don't know for certain whether there's 0 or 1 or 10 or 50 god(s) [...]
Gods by definition are supernatural entities, and thus far supernatural entities have not been proved to exist. Ergo, gods do not exist, and something that doesn't exist cannot be counted.

We therefore do know for certain that no gods exist in any number whatsoever.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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03-04-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: Unlikely Destination Argument (Similar to One Less God) Thoughts?
(03-04-2016 08:28 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 03:25 PM)embeddedwes Wrote:  Basically because it can't be known for certain that there are an infinite number of gods - in much the same way we don't know for certain whether there's 0 or 1 or 10 or 50 god(s) [...]
Gods by definition are supernatural entities, and thus far supernatural entities have not been proved to exist. Ergo, gods do not exist, and something that doesn't exist cannot be counted.

We therefore do know for certain that no gods exist in any number whatsoever.

....

... uh....

.... last time I checked... which was a minute ago just to be sure... zero is a number.
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03-04-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: Unlikely Destination Argument (Similar to One Less God) Thoughts?
I think the original idea has some merit.
Zero, and that which approaches zero, are not all that different.
Trouble is, Christians will say their version of the dying and rising god(s) is an indication that their religion is the "true" one. So it would come down to being able to debunk that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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