Unoriginal Christ.
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12-02-2013, 10:42 PM
Unoriginal Christ.
So I strolled across a debate the other day between good ole Dan Barker and a dude named James White. I was struck by one part of the debate in which Dan is comparing the story of Jesus to The Odyssey. His opponent countered with a convincing round.
White argued that the comparison of Jesus to all of the old pagan religions and myths wasn't a strong argument because most scholars agree that different interpretations of the original texts were done to twist the story to parallel Jesus' tale. He went on to say that this type if argument was shot down decades ago and the internet had brought about a new resurgence of this tactic.
I would hate to be giving a weak argument unknowingly if I can help it.
Can anyone here direct me to a non biased source for a good honest take on the comparison of Jesus to the earlier pagan religions?
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12-02-2013, 11:37 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2013 12:26 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Unoriginal Christ.
(12-02-2013 10:42 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  So I strolled across a debate the other day between good ole Dan Barker and a dude named James White. I was struck by one part of the debate in which Dan is comparing the story of Jesus to The Odyssey. His opponent countered with a convincing round.
White argued that the comparison of Jesus to all of the old pagan religions and myths wasn't a strong argument because most scholars agree that different interpretations of the original texts were done to twist the story to parallel Jesus' tale. He went on to say that this type if argument was shot down decades ago and the internet had brought about a new resurgence of this tactic.
I would hate to be giving a weak argument unknowingly if I can help it.
Can anyone here direct me to a non biased source for a good honest take on the comparison of Jesus to the earlier pagan religions?
Actually he has it backwards. Many of the elements of the Jebus story were done to reflect the mythological origins. There is a long series, we have discussed somewhere, (thanks to, and ask Vosur where), called Excavating the Empty Tomb. Around part 16 it talks about the syncretic myth systems. Discussion of the myth similarity starts in Part 4.



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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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13-02-2013, 12:10 AM
RE: Unoriginal Christ.
Exactly, The Odyssey is older then Jesus....like a lot of myths in history are. Jesus story seems similar to a lot of older myths.
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13-02-2013, 12:51 AM
RE: Unoriginal Christ.
(12-02-2013 11:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 10:42 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  So I strolled across a debate the other day between good ole Dan Barker and a dude named James White. I was struck by one part of the debate in which Dan is comparing the story of Jesus to The Odyssey. His opponent countered with a convincing round.
White argued that the comparison of Jesus to all of the old pagan religions and myths wasn't a strong argument because most scholars agree that different interpretations of the original texts were done to twist the story to parallel Jesus' tale. He went on to say that this type if argument was shot down decades ago and the internet had brought about a new resurgence of this tactic.
I would hate to be giving a weak argument unknowingly if I can help it.
Can anyone here direct me to a non biased source for a good honest take on the comparison of Jesus to the earlier pagan religions?
Actually he has it backwards. Many of the elements of the Jebus story were done to reflect the mythological origins. There is a long series, we have discussed somewhere, (thanks to, and ask Vosur where), called Excavating the Empty Tomb. Around part 16 it talks about the syncretic myth systems. Discussion of the myth similarity starts in Part 4.



Thanks for the reference, it may take me awhile to get through it. Free study hours are limited these days. Damn kids.
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13-02-2013, 12:57 AM
RE: Unoriginal Christ.
(13-02-2013 12:10 AM)StorMFront Wrote:  Exactly, The Odyssey is older then Jesus....like a lot of myths in history are. Jesus story seems similar to a lot of older myths.

That's my question, are the older myths (with ancient and similarly vague texts) honestly and scholarly solid enough evidence to confidently present as good evidence?
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13-02-2013, 01:21 AM
RE: Unoriginal Christ.
(13-02-2013 12:57 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(13-02-2013 12:10 AM)StorMFront Wrote:  Exactly, The Odyssey is older then Jesus....like a lot of myths in history are. Jesus story seems similar to a lot of older myths.

That's my question, are the older myths (with ancient and similarly vague texts) honestly and scholarly solid enough evidence to confidently present as good evidence?
Well youll end up in a version of Socrates vs Jesus debate ( theist have a hard time getting that, extraordinary claims, need extraordinary evidence).

I wouldnt go down that road, its better to use modern archaeology to degrade the bible stories or attack the so called Historians of the era that claim the existence of Jesus (Its basically all they got).

Arguing with a Christian is a lot like playing chess with a pigeon. You can be the greatest player in the world, yet the pigeon will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board and strut away triumphantly.
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13-02-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: Unoriginal Christ.
(13-02-2013 01:21 AM)StorMFront Wrote:  
(13-02-2013 12:57 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  That's my question, are the older myths (with ancient and similarly vague texts) honestly and scholarly solid enough evidence to confidently present as good evidence?
Well youll end up in a version of Socrates vs Jesus debate ( theist have a hard time getting that, extraordinary claims, need extraordinary evidence).

I wouldnt go down that road, its better to use modern archaeology to degrade the bible stories or attack the so called Historians of the era that claim the existence of Jesus (Its basically all they got).

I can agree with you there. The archeology is pretty compelling. But I liked the pagan myth argument so much because it's actually evidence for us, rather than just absence of evidence. And you have to remember that there are credible atheist historians who think that a historical Jesus did probably exist.
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13-02-2013, 10:33 AM
RE: Unoriginal Christ.
(13-02-2013 12:10 AM)StorMFront Wrote:  ... Jesus story seems similar to a lot of older myths.
Which ones? Could you be more specific?

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13-02-2013, 11:08 AM
RE: Unoriginal Christ.
(13-02-2013 10:33 AM)KVron Wrote:  
(13-02-2013 12:10 AM)StorMFront Wrote:  ... Jesus story seems similar to a lot of older myths.
Which ones? Could you be more specific?
Horus and Zeus are two...

Arguing with a Christian is a lot like playing chess with a pigeon. You can be the greatest player in the world, yet the pigeon will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board and strut away triumphantly.
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13-02-2013, 11:09 AM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2013 11:17 AM by evenheathen.)
RE: Unoriginal Christ.
(13-02-2013 10:33 AM)KVron Wrote:  
(13-02-2013 12:10 AM)StorMFront Wrote:  ... Jesus story seems similar to a lot of older myths.
Which ones? Could you be more specific?

I've seen a few different sites that reference ten or twelve ancient gods that have similar miracle claims such as the virgin birth, walking on water, water to wine, crucifixion and resurrection, etc. Mithras, horus are a couple that come to mind. I'd cite more but I'm at work.
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