Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
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16-06-2014, 08:31 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 04:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  Besides, I like your posts, so that's positive. Yes

You make a sound and compelling argument.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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16-06-2014, 10:16 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 08:21 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I want to add that it is important that we debate theists on here when they go telling atheists that they are right and atheists need to come to their side, or when they distort science and use it as proof that their religion is true.

Theists quickly kick us off of their forums because they don't want anybody who starts any kind of conversation that makes them question their beliefs. We cannot do the same because it makes us look like the cowards that they are. Such behavior would also make us look bad in the eyes of fence-sitters, and give them the impression that we are fearful that theists will prove our arguments to be wrong, and that theism holds the same amount of credibility that atheism does.

As far as public debates, I think atheists like Bill Nye and Richard Dawkins should not be involved in debates with theists. When major scientific figures get involved in openly public debates, it gives creationists the idea that creationist arguments by guys like Ken Ham have just as much validity as the arguments of highly respected scientists.

It strangely has the same effect as people like us giving theists on our forum the boot simply for the fact that they want to debate us on religious topics, because they think that they can fool some average joe atheists with their religious arguments, just because we're not highly respected scientists like Nye and Dawkins, and that makes us susceptible to their bullshit arguments. Sounds backwards, but that's the way it seems to work.

Well said, and I totally agree.

Faith is believing what you know ain't so ~ Mark Twain Facepalm
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17-06-2014, 02:16 AM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2014 08:18 AM by rampant.a.i..)
Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 08:00 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  "Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative."

Are you asking the question for you or for others? If you are wondering if you have a positive influence the answer is yes, at least for me, I like hearing what you have to say.
If the question is reflective then only you can answer that, what I do know is that this place is a refuge from much of the madness (until Jeremy spouts off but fuck him, he's just a proselytizing douche).

Me personally, as the forums are bringing the hypocrisy of the "I'm better than you because I dozed off in church every Sunday this month" crowd back to primary focus.

As for Jeremy, I haven't read the post, as I'm sure there's nothing new to see, other than some personalization of his conversion message he likely failed to deliver without lukewarm sound bytes and repeated truisms, from what I saw skipping past the post.

Anyway, thank all of you for the replies and kind words, this wasn't a self-destruct post.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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17-06-2014, 09:36 AM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(17-06-2014 02:16 AM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 08:00 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  "Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative."

Are you asking the question for you or for others? If you are wondering if you have a positive influence the answer is yes, at least for me, I like hearing what you have to say.
If the question is reflective then only you can answer that, what I do know is that this place is a refuge from much of the madness (until Jeremy spouts off but fuck him, he's just a proselytizing douche).

Me personally, as the forums are bringing the hypocrisy of the "I'm better than you because I dozed off in church every Sunday this month" crowd back to primary focus.

As for Jeremy, I haven't read the post, as I'm sure there's nothing new to see, other than some personalization of his conversion message he likely failed to deliver without lukewarm sound bytes and repeated truisms, from what I saw skipping past the post.

Anyway, thank all of you for the replies and kind words, this wasn't a self-destruct post.

Glad to hear it.
I've been on less than usual and the time off is good, busy with other stuff, maybe you could scale back and re-energize...works for me.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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17-06-2014, 06:57 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(16-06-2014 08:21 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I want to add that it is important that we debate theists on here when they go telling atheists that they are right and atheists need to come to their side, or when they distort science and use it as proof that their religion is true.

Theists quickly kick us off of their forums because they don't want anybody who starts any kind of conversation that makes them question their beliefs. We cannot do the same because it makes us look like the cowards that they are. Such behavior would also make us look bad in the eyes of fence-sitters, and give them the impression that we are fearful that theists will prove our arguments to be wrong, and that theism holds the same amount of credibility that atheism does.

As far as public debates, I think atheists like Bill Nye and Richard Dawkins should not be involved in debates with theists. When major scientific figures get involved in openly public debates, it gives creationists the idea that creationist arguments by guys like Ken Ham have just as much validity as the arguments of highly respected scientists.

It strangely has the same effect as people like us giving theists on our forum the boot simply for the fact that they want to debate us on religious topics, because they think that they can fool some average joe atheists with their religious arguments, just because we're not highly respected scientists like Nye and Dawkins, and that makes us susceptible to their bullshit arguments. Sounds backwards, but that's the way it seems to work.

Would you like to engage in a one on one discussion as Dark Phoenix and I are doing in the boxing ring?

I would be glad to talk with you one on one and give you a chance to speak on your views with a Christian.

I am allowed to participate in no more than two threads at a time in the ring and Dark Phoenix and I are taking our time and going at a good, slow pace.

It does not have to be a hardcore debate if you do not want.

I would be interested in seeing what evidence you have that leads you to believe that arguments for Christianity are poor.

Maybe you would be interested in talking with a Christian who was once an agnostic atheist?

Hope you will accept the invitation.
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17-06-2014, 07:06 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(17-06-2014 06:57 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 08:21 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I want to add that it is important that we debate theists on here when they go telling atheists that they are right and atheists need to come to their side, or when they distort science and use it as proof that their religion is true.

Theists quickly kick us off of their forums because they don't want anybody who starts any kind of conversation that makes them question their beliefs. We cannot do the same because it makes us look like the cowards that they are. Such behavior would also make us look bad in the eyes of fence-sitters, and give them the impression that we are fearful that theists will prove our arguments to be wrong, and that theism holds the same amount of credibility that atheism does.

As far as public debates, I think atheists like Bill Nye and Richard Dawkins should not be involved in debates with theists. When major scientific figures get involved in openly public debates, it gives creationists the idea that creationist arguments by guys like Ken Ham have just as much validity as the arguments of highly respected scientists.

It strangely has the same effect as people like us giving theists on our forum the boot simply for the fact that they want to debate us on religious topics, because they think that they can fool some average joe atheists with their religious arguments, just because we're not highly respected scientists like Nye and Dawkins, and that makes us susceptible to their bullshit arguments. Sounds backwards, but that's the way it seems to work.

Would you like to engage in a one on one discussion as Dark Phoenix and I are doing in the boxing ring?

I would be glad to talk with you one on one and give you a chance to speak on your views with a Christian.

I am allowed to participate in no more than two threads at a time in the ring and Dark Phoenix and I are taking our time and going at a good, slow pace.

It does not have to be a hardcore debate if you do not want.

I would be interested in seeing what evidence you have that leads you to believe that arguments for Christianity are poor.

Maybe you would be interested in talking with a Christian who was once an agnostic atheist?

Hope you will accept the invitation.

how does one have a hard core debate when one side is based on a disproven fairy tale which places that member in such a terrible disadvantage?

interesting theory...so lets think about this, 1.5 trillion light years away, the big bang started the known universe, which is ever expanding, faster and faster, a sun blows up every second, planets imploding and exploding with the force so that all the way in the outside suburbs of the nebula, a planet finally has the right conditions to have life, and after 4.5 billion years of evolution, and 98.9% of all life on it having gone extinct along the way during their evolutionary attempt to survive.....we have us...and you think that 6,000 years ago (according to the fictional book the bible) a super genie in the sky wiggled his third appendage and POOF! everything popped into existence? Come on folks, you don't really believe that do you? Talking bushes and magical unicorns? Come on...surely you are smarter than that...

We know due to fossils and remnants that civilizations have been here from 100-150k years...lets just say 100k years for arguments sake, I know I know, that doesnt go along with the bible, does that surprise you? Their answer is usually "we dont know how long a day in god's world is" or ""we are still in the 6th day" or "in Gen 2:5 it doesnt say WHEN that was", but anyway, lets just pretend we are in the real world....so we have had civilized man for over 100k years...cities....and for 96k years or so with disease, wars, rapes, murders, natural catastrophes god sat back with his arms crossed and waited until about oh 4k years ago to say, ok ok, I will intervene...and sent his "son" down via a virgin to go forth and spread the good word, and then inevitably "die for our sins"...I know right, I am serious, people believe this stuff, but hang in there, it gets better....he looks around the world...does he go to china where they had vast civilizations, great scientific minds and advancements? no, how about Egypt, they were building pyramids that aligned with the stars.....no...he picked the arm pit of the world, the butt crack of the middle east, the most barbaric, ignorant uneducated tools to greet his gift.....you call this a smart diety?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-06-2014, 07:37 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  how does one have a hard core debate when one side is based on a disproven fairy tale which places that member in such a terrible disadvantage?

If you think Christianity is a disproven fairy tale, then all you would have to do is show how it has been disproven and how it is a fairy tale and voila, you debunk Christianity, something that people have been trying to do for nearly two millennia.

(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  interesting theory...so lets think about this, 1.5 trillion light years away, the big bang started the known universe, which is ever expanding, faster and faster, a sun blows up every second, planets imploding and exploding with the force so that all the way in the outside suburbs of the nebula, a planet finally has the right conditions to have life, and after 4.5 billion years of evolution, and 98.9% of all life on it having gone extinct along the way during their evolutionary attempt to survive.....we have us...and you think that 6,000 years ago (according to the fictional book the bible) a super genie in the sky wiggled his third appendage and POOF! everything popped into existence? Come on folks, you don't really believe that do you? Talking bushes and magical unicorns? Come on...surely you are smarter than that...

Interesting theory.

Why do you think the Bible claims that the universe was created 6,000 years ago?

(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  We know due to fossils and remnants that civilizations have been here from 100-150k years...lets just say 100k years for arguments sake, I know I know, that doesnt go along with the bible, does that surprise you?

The above does not sound accurate to me.

The development of cities was synonymous with the rise of civilization. Early civilizations arose first in lower Mesopotamia (3500 BCE), followed by Egyptian civilization along the Nile (3000 BCE) and the Harappan civilization in the Indus Valley (in present-day India and Pakistan; 2500 BCE). These societies developed a number of unifying characteristics, including a central government, a complex economy and social structure, sophisticated language and writing systems, and distinct cultures and religions. Writing was another pivotal development in human history, as it made the administration of cities and expression of ideas far easier. wikipedia

So in light of the above we can round the number off to 10,000 BCE for the earliest civilization and that is being very very generous to you. And as anyone here can see, 10,000 BCE is a far cry from 100,000 BCE.



(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  ...so we have had civilized man for over 100k years...cities....

No bro....I don't think so.


(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  and for 96k years or so with disease, wars, rapes, murders, natural catastrophes god sat back with his arms crossed and waited until about oh 4k years ago to say, ok ok, I will intervene...and sent his "son" down via a virgin to go forth and spread the good word, and then inevitably "die for our sins"...

I have never stated or argued that God sat back with His arms crossed and waited to do something about the evil that was consuming His creation until He sent His Son into the world so this is a strawman.


(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I know right, I am serious, people believe this stuff,

I know of no one who believes what you have written.


(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  but hang in there, it gets better....he looks around the world...does he go to china where they had vast civilizations, great scientific minds and advancements? no, how about Egypt, they were building pyramids that aligned with the stars.....no...he picked the arm pit of the world, the butt crack of the middle east, the most barbaric, ignorant uneducated tools to greet his gift.....you call this a smart diety?

There are several reasons why God chose the people He did.
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17-06-2014, 07:54 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2014 07:59 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
sorry I am chat challenged. My replies are in bold.

If you think Christianity is a disproven fairy tale, then all you would have to do is show how it has been disproven and how it is a fairy tale and voila, you debunk Christianity, something that people have been trying to do for nearly two millennia. *since it is based on the bible, and the bible is easily disproven, unless you finally grasp it is largely a collection of allegorical writings, just like the original christian doctrine has stated, all majority of religious scholars accept, and that is what is taught in christian colleges..I know, I have taken pretty much every religious course offered at saint leo university.*


you said,


Interesting theory.

Why do you think the Bible claims that the universe was created 6,000 years ago?

search answersingenesis, age of the world

I said.."We know due to fossils and remnants that civilizations have been here from 100-150k years...lets just say 100k years for arguments sake, I know I know, that doesnt go along with the bible, does that surprise you?"

you said - The above does not sound accurate to me.

The development of cities was synonymous with the rise of civilization. -snip-
So in light of the above we can round the number off to 10,000 BCE for the earliest civilization and that is being very very generous to you. And as anyone here can see, 10,000 BCE is a far cry from 100,000 BCE.

I may have typoed, but here are a few facts; Aleppo is one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities in the world; it has been inhabited since as early as the 6th millennium BCE...Evidence of habitation at the current site of Aleppo dates to about c. 8,000 years ago, although excavations at Tell Qaramel, 25 kilometers north of the city show the area was inhabited about 13,000 years ago.

modern humans.....

New dating techniques indicate that the fossils are 195,000 years old. The two skulls and some bones were first uncovered on opposite sides of Ethiopia's Omo River in 1967 by a team led by Richard Leakey. The fossils, dubbed Omo I and Omo II, were dated at the time as being about 130,000 years old. But even then the researchers themselves questioned the accuracy of the dating technique.
The new findings, published in the February 17 issue of the journal Nature, establish Omo I and II as the oldest known fossils of modern humans. The prior record holders were fossils from Herto, Ethiopia, which dated the emergence of modern humans in Africa to about 160,000 years ago....uhoh, 160,000 years ago, lets contemplate that for a moment.....yeah. Where humans are, groups coexist, where groups coexist, villages are created......"civilization".



I said...so we have had civilized man for over 100k years...cities..

you replied - No bro....I don't think so. see above






I said...-snip- .no...he picked the arm pit of the world, the butt crack of the middle east, the most barbaric, ignorant uneducated tools to greet his gift.....you call this a smart diety?"


you replied...There are several reasons why God chose the people He did.

really, and you know the thoughts of god how?

Smartass

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-06-2014, 09:10 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(17-06-2014 06:57 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 08:21 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I want to add that it is important that we debate theists on here when they go telling atheists that they are right and atheists need to come to their side, or when they distort science and use it as proof that their religion is true.

Theists quickly kick us off of their forums because they don't want anybody who starts any kind of conversation that makes them question their beliefs. We cannot do the same because it makes us look like the cowards that they are. Such behavior would also make us look bad in the eyes of fence-sitters, and give them the impression that we are fearful that theists will prove our arguments to be wrong, and that theism holds the same amount of credibility that atheism does.

As far as public debates, I think atheists like Bill Nye and Richard Dawkins should not be involved in debates with theists. When major scientific figures get involved in openly public debates, it gives creationists the idea that creationist arguments by guys like Ken Ham have just as much validity as the arguments of highly respected scientists.

It strangely has the same effect as people like us giving theists on our forum the boot simply for the fact that they want to debate us on religious topics, because they think that they can fool some average joe atheists with their religious arguments, just because we're not highly respected scientists like Nye and Dawkins, and that makes us susceptible to their bullshit arguments. Sounds backwards, but that's the way it seems to work.

Would you like to engage in a one on one discussion as Dark Phoenix and I are doing in the boxing ring?

LOL since your sorry ass runs out of every Ring debate you get into.



Quote:I would be glad to talk with you one on one and give you a chance to speak on your views with a Christian.

Not that your sorry ass would pay any attention to what is said to you.

Quote:I am allowed to participate in no more than two threads at a time in the ring and Dark Phoenix and I are taking our time and going at a good, slow pace.

It does not have to be a hardcore debate if you do not want.

You have already proven several times over that you can't conduct a real debate. Or even a real discussion.


Quote:I would be interested in seeing what evidence you have that leads you to believe that arguments for Christianity are poor.

LOL this has been shown to you dozens if not hundreds of times here. Why would you pay any more attention this time, asshole.


Quote:Maybe you would be interested in talking with a Christian who was once an agnostic atheist?

Haven't seen any of them here.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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17-06-2014, 09:45 PM
RE: Unsure whether my time on AF and TTA is positive or negative.
(17-06-2014 07:37 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  how does one have a hard core debate when one side is based on a disproven fairy tale which places that member in such a terrible disadvantage?

If you think Christianity is a disproven fairy tale, then all you would have to do is show how it has been disproven and how it is a fairy tale and voila, you debunk Christianity, something that people have been trying to do for nearly two millennia.

Already done many times over. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it is your own fucking problem.

[Image: black-knight-fight-o.gif]

Quote:
(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  interesting theory...so lets think about this, 1.5 trillion light years away, the big bang started the known universe, which is ever expanding, faster and faster, a sun blows up every second, planets imploding and exploding with the force so that all the way in the outside suburbs of the nebula, a planet finally has the right conditions to have life, and after 4.5 billion years of evolution, and 98.9% of all life on it having gone extinct along the way during their evolutionary attempt to survive.....we have us...and you think that 6,000 years ago (according to the fictional book the bible) a super genie in the sky wiggled his third appendage and POOF! everything popped into existence? Come on folks, you don't really believe that do you? Talking bushes and magical unicorns? Come on...surely you are smarter than that...

Interesting theory.

[Image: colin-farrell.gif]

Quote:Why do you think the Bible claims that the universe was created 6,000 years ago?

Because it was written by stupid and superstitious iron age goatfuckers who didn't have a fucking clue about astronomy, physics, science, geology, or anything else but fucking fucking goats. Which doesn't speak well for you going along with their stupif goatfucking superstitions.


Quote:
(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  We know due to fossils and remnants that civilizations have been here from 100-150k years...lets just say 100k years for arguments sake, I know I know, that doesnt go along with the bible, does that surprise you?

The above does not sound accurate to me.

The development of cities was synonymous with the rise of civilization. Early civilizations arose first in lower Mesopotamia (3500 BCE), followed by Egyptian civilization along the Nile (3000 BCE) and the Harappan civilization in the Indus Valley (in present-day India and Pakistan; 2500 BCE). These societies developed a number of unifying characteristics, including a central government, a complex economy and social structure, sophisticated language and writing systems, and distinct cultures and religions. Writing was another pivotal development in human history, as it made the administration of cities and expression of ideas far easier. wikipedia

So in light of the above we can round the number off to 10,000 BCE for the earliest civilization and that is being very very generous to you. And as anyone here can see, 10,000 BCE is a far cry from 100,000 BCE.



(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  ...so we have had civilized man for over 100k years...cities....

No bro....I don't think so.


(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  and for 96k years or so with disease, wars, rapes, murders, natural catastrophes god sat back with his arms crossed and waited until about oh 4k years ago to say, ok ok, I will intervene...and sent his "son" down via a virgin to go forth and spread the good word, and then inevitably "die for our sins"...

I have never stated or argued that God sat back with His arms crossed and waited to do something about the evil that was consuming His creation until He sent His Son into the world so this is a strawman.

Your fucking fairy tale book -- the one that you keep trying to shove down our throats -- says it.



Quote:
(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I know right, I am serious, people believe this stuff,

I know of no one who believes what you have written.

Even if his dates are off, his point is valid and you are attempting to dodge it. No surprise here.

Quote:
(17-06-2014 07:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  but hang in there, it gets better....he looks around the world...does he go to china where they had vast civilizations, great scientific minds and advancements? no, how about Egypt, they were building pyramids that aligned with the stars.....no...he picked the arm pit of the world, the butt crack of the middle east, the most barbaric, ignorant uneducated tools to greet his gift.....you call this a smart diety?

There are several reasons why God chose the people He did.

Oh, so you are going to dodge with "because reasons". FAIL.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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