Update: came out to my wife.
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03-10-2016, 11:28 AM
RE: Update: came out to my wife.
(03-10-2016 10:15 AM)herrozerro Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 09:08 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Very nice. This doesn't surprise me and I think more of these conversations would go this way if people just got the courage to have them. Very happy for you. I feel bad you'll have to go through the motions with a pastor because your wife sounds like a great person, though it still seems like she wants to see if you can be "cured." Baby steps. You'll be able to voice your rational thought here and she may start to really understand, maybe even have her eyes opened a bit.

Well in her words best I can remember:

"I'd like to talk with someone together... Not that I just want to drag you to church and get Jesus."

It's more I think to counsel our marriage than reconversion. And she even suggested our retired pastor, a man that I actually respect and would have no issues having a conversation with.

Great, very happy for you!

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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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03-10-2016, 11:36 AM
RE: Update: came out to my wife.
(03-10-2016 10:15 AM)herrozerro Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 09:08 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Very nice. This doesn't surprise me and I think more of these conversations would go this way if people just got the courage to have them. Very happy for you. I feel bad you'll have to go through the motions with a pastor because your wife sounds like a great person, though it still seems like she wants to see if you can be "cured." Baby steps. You'll be able to voice your rational thought here and she may start to really understand, maybe even have her eyes opened a bit.

Well in her words best I can remember:

"I'd like to talk with someone together... Not that I just want to drag you to church and get Jesus."

It's more I think to counsel our marriage than reconversion. And she even suggested our retired pastor, a man that I actually respect and would have no issues having a conversation with.

Sounds great! Thumbsup
Maybe after seeing the pastor for counseling, you could both check out a secular counselor as well. It might make for an interesting perspective. Surely, there would be a few in your area. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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03-10-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: Update: came out to my wife.
You're lucky, she's on the right side of this and has a great attitude. She may not understand your struggle, but she doesn't downplay it and isn't angry about. She seems more concerned about the turmoil you've struggled with than with the loss of faith itself. That's empathy, and a sign of a caring human being. You guys will get through this.
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03-10-2016, 03:43 PM
RE: Update: came out to my wife.
(03-10-2016 11:36 AM)kim Wrote:  
(03-10-2016 10:15 AM)herrozerro Wrote:  Well in her words best I can remember:

"I'd like to talk with someone together... Not that I just want to drag you to church and get Jesus."

It's more I think to counsel our marriage than reconversion. And she even suggested our retired pastor, a man that I actually respect and would have no issues having a conversation with.

Sounds great! Thumbsup
Maybe after seeing the pastor for counseling, you could both check out a secular counselor as well. It might make for an interesting perspective. Surely, there would be a few in your area. Shy

In case you all do go Kim's suggested route; Recovering From Religion has the Secular Therapist Project, to make sure people see a therapist who won't just tell them to go to church:

https://www.seculartherapy.org/findtherapist.php

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03-10-2016, 03:59 PM
RE: Update: came out to my wife.
It's so good to hear about this kind of event with a so far happy ending. So often we hear about how the spouse goes crazy. I'm so happy that it is working out for you even if at first it might be difficult.
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05-10-2016, 05:28 AM
RE: Update: came out to my wife.
Update... I feel so raw and empty. But in a good way.

Last night I bared it all, all of my feelings about the miscarriage, my existential crisis, my months of searching and coming up empty from the religious side, the feelings of dread when i fully realized that I just couldn't believe it anymore...

It just feels so good to have everything out, to have someone hold me while I'm finally mourning our loss.

I wish I'd have done this sooner.
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05-10-2016, 04:09 PM
RE: Update: came out to my wife.
Great Job. I sorry about the miscarriage thou. But it sounds like your wife is pretty understanding.

I don't know if talking to the Pastor will help matters much thou.

Just stay calm and collected.

Don't be a stranger. It's nice to hear good news like this. For at least me. Give me a little hope with my wife.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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06-10-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: Update: came out to my wife.
(05-10-2016 04:09 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Great Job. I sorry about the miscarriage thou. But it sounds like your wife is pretty understanding.

I don't know if talking to the Pastor will help matters much thou.

Just stay calm and collected.

Don't be a stranger. It's nice to hear good news like this. For at least me. Give me a little hope with my wife.

Thanks for the condolences.

About the pastor, we had a nice talk about that last night. I made it clear that I'm not going into this expecting to reconvert a few days later. She expressed her fears of not having me in eternity but at the same time made sure she didn't want me lying just to make her happy.

She wanted me to always keep looking, and I promised... and it's true. I am always looking for the truth. Do I think it'll lead me back to her god? No... but as I told her. If god exists, he knows exactly what would change my mind. It's on god, I'm open to the possibility, I just need evidence.
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06-10-2016, 08:44 AM
RE: Update: came out to my wife.
One thing that might reassure her is if you present her with your personal statement of ethics and morals, a confirmation of what you believe to be the right way to live and act in society.

This could help counter any fears she may have, or fears that others may suggest to her, about the "slippery slope into hopelessness and nihilism" and reassure her that you intend to raise your children with morals and values too.

You should try to both be on the same page with regard to what standards of behaviour you expect from your children, even if you disagree on why they should behave that way (i.e. because we all should behave this way for the good of society, rather than because god says you should behave this way).

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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06-10-2016, 10:12 AM
RE: Update: came out to my wife.
"She expressed her fears of not having me in eternity but at the same time made sure she didn't want me lying just to make her happy."

The whole "eternity" issue is the main reward that religion pounds into people. To jeopardize this reward is to cause some serious fear - downright trauma.

Essentially, you have extracated your mind from this fantasy, while your wife has remained striving for the fantasy's "reward". She remains, because she knows of no other life.

At this point, just keep things calm and seemingly unchanged. By just living life completely and lovingly, you can display to her that there really is no "other life" - this is it.

What she percieves to be a life's "reward" is fantasy. It's a tough thing to overcome - rewards are made to be extraordinarily attractive. How could one not want it?!?

Also, the discussion of her miscarriage could possibly be tied into this "reward". It may be the only thing that has kept her shit together ('this baby died now but I'll get to be it's mommy in heaven.' or whatever.). No doubt these notions drop off incrementally throughout life but, some stick around, just to get us over the hump, so to speak. The issue should be addressed from her point of view, so that she too, is able to move forward.

***
Weird brainwashing note here: something that helped me to understand about brainwashed people (who were able to get unbrainwashed), was reading about Patty Hearst. She was privileged, went through a lot of shit, persecuted at every turn, and survived - certainly not unscathed but, at least she was finally able to build her own identity and her own self.

One's self can be a tough thing to get to, when one's needs are always what someone else wants. Shy

Just let your wife know she has your love and the freedom of your partnership to be whomever she becomes. That's really the only promise you can make to her, without being hipocritical.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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