Us vs Them
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26-05-2012, 11:35 PM
Us vs Them
Just wanted to repost something I saw on reddit because I liked the message and I feel like this forum can be resistant to the Us vs Them mentality. Not always, but enough that it's usually a place friendly for discussion of all sides of the debate.

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27-05-2012, 01:14 AM
RE: Us vs Them
(26-05-2012 11:35 PM)kineo Wrote:  Just wanted to repost something I saw on reddit because I liked the message and I feel like this forum can be resistant to the Us vs Them mentality. Not always, but enough that it's usually a place friendly for discussion of all sides of the debate.

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Good point Kineo, an open ended attitude is essential and pontificating generally unproductive.

Many of us are far too rigidly locked into a cosy dogmatism.. Rolleyes
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27-05-2012, 01:37 AM
RE: Us vs Them
I assume by us v them you mean atheist v theist.
I think that the atheist v theist argument is not one of ethics and honor but rather simply one of does God exist or doesn't he, in which case there is either a yes or a no hence us v them.

Unless I am missing something.

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27-05-2012, 02:46 AM
RE: Us vs Them
Interesting conundrum....

Are those that propagate propaganda "always unethical and dishonourable"?
If so, should we (us) always be against "them"?

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27-05-2012, 02:47 AM
RE: Us vs Them
(27-05-2012 01:37 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I assume by us v them you mean atheist v theist.
I think that the atheist v theist argument is not one of ethics and honor but rather simply one of does God exist or doesn't he, in which case there is either a yes or a no hence us v them.

Unless I am missing something.

I think that lot of people get in to the mindset of 'i'm a(n) (a)theist therefore I'm better than you' and think that they have the monopoly on morality. It then leads to a whole load of ad homenims which takes away from the argument they're meant to be having.

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27-05-2012, 03:33 AM
RE: Us vs Them
I think a lot of the "us vs them" issue could be gone if more people would be able to simply accept some basic things. One of the most important: You don't have to aggree with "them"
And I purposly do not interpret the "us" and "them" because it can be so many things. It can be about cooking as much as politics.
Have a discussion if you want to but accept that sometimes noone will change their mind.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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27-05-2012, 03:34 AM
 
RE: Us vs Them
If you don't believe in God, you have no reason to be good. You may be good, but your goodness won't matter--you might as well be bad.

Of course that doesn't prove God exists; it just brings into focus the truth of atheism.
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27-05-2012, 03:37 AM
RE: Us vs Them
It's almost seems natural to think in terms of Us vs Them. It's ingrained in our psyche. Look at our sport. Each game is an Us vs Them.

Most kids have that mindset almost exclusively. If you don't agree you are the enemy!

So yeah, its very human to think like that.

You better agree with this or else you are one of them! (I already know it will be Buddy Christ who won't like this post - he is the enemy we all must hate! Big Grin)

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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27-05-2012, 03:46 AM
RE: Us vs Them
(27-05-2012 03:34 AM)Egor Wrote:  If you don't believe in God, you have no reason to be good. You may be good, but your goodness won't matter--you might as well be bad.

Of course that doesn't prove God exists; it just brings into focus the truth of atheism.

I would think you've been exposed to enough atheists to know better. Atheists have lots of reasons to be good. They just aren't centered around a supernatural punishment/reward system. Do you think that without some divine karma system nothing would matter? Atheists I know don't think like that.

Think outside your box.

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27-05-2012, 04:27 AM
 
RE: Us vs Them
(27-05-2012 03:46 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  I would think you've been exposed to enough atheists to know better. Atheists have lots of reasons to be good. They just aren't centered around a supernatural punishment/reward system. Do you think that without some divine karma system nothing would matter? Atheists I know don't think like that.

Think outside your box.


Think outside your box. If atheism is true, there is no good or bad; there is no morality; there is no validity to the word "should." There is your opinion of virtue and mine, and that's it. That doesn't mean atheists are bad people. It simply means that their goodness doesn't count for anything.

If theism of any kind is true then when one is good, they are A) following God's command, or B) if they are monists, then the good they do for others is the good they do for themselves. Their good matters.

And I'm surprised: If you're an atheist why would you even care about being "morally" good? Why can't you just admit you were raised to be a decent person, so you behave decently? Who do you think is out there watching you be "moral"?

Huh
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