Us vs Them
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27-05-2012, 12:07 PM
RE: Us vs Them
As long as there are idiots in the world, there will always be "them."


Theists as a whole are not idiots, but people who believe in bullshit conspiracies are.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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27-05-2012, 02:06 PM
RE: Us vs Them
(27-05-2012 12:07 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  As long as there are idiots in the world, there will always be "them."


Theists as a whole are not idiots, but people who believe in bullshit conspiracies are.
If one knew that one's belief was a "bullshit conspiracy", it's doubtful that the person would continue that belief. But if we assume that they don't know, isn't it fair to say that there are reasons for non-idiots to believe?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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27-05-2012, 02:13 PM
RE: Us vs Them
I never really liked the term Us VS Them.... It seems to me like it should be Us trying to get Them to see reason.
Atheists are not the ones provoking the religious, they had that monopoly a long time ago when they introduced the wicked concept of Hell. My signiture is a valid point on this. The religious, by their own creeds, are the ones starting, and escalating the above mentality that you brought up.

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27-05-2012, 02:33 PM
RE: Us vs Them
(27-05-2012 02:13 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I never really liked the term Us VS Them.... It seems to me like it should be Us trying to get Them to see reason.
Atheists are not the ones provoking the religious, they had that monopoly a long time ago when they introduced the wicked concept of Hell. My signiture is a valid point on this. The religious, by their own creeds, are the ones starting, and escalating the above mentality that you brought up.
The Hatfields and the McCoys could both point to prior episodes where the other "started it first". You're making a blanket statement about "the religious" in general, trying to justify prejudice towards "Them".

Look, this is an issue that's very close to my heart. It pains me to see how often rational thought is rejected for conformity or bias towards one's belief (or non-belief). I'd love to see the whole world embrace rational thinking, but many religious find it inconvenient and many non-religious simply assume that their thoughts must already be rational because they share the conclusions that the rational came to. I hate to become a pariah by attacking my own group so often, but if atheists aren't going to embrace rationalism, then who the fuck will?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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27-05-2012, 03:02 PM
RE: Us vs Them
(27-05-2012 04:27 AM)Egor Wrote:  And I'm surprised: If you're an atheist why would you even care about being "morally" good? Why can't you just admit you were raised to be a decent person, so you behave decently? Who do you think is out there watching you be "moral"?
Huh
"... out there watching you be moral?"

That is an inexperienced notion.

It's logical to be good and cooperative with others to meet personal and cultural needs. To do otherwise, the needs of the one as well as the needs of the many, are not met.
Needs met=humans thrive; Needs not met=humans die.

It's possible children don't instantly see this concept, but through a variety of social interaction, it becomes quite clear. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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27-05-2012, 03:03 PM
RE: Us vs Them
(27-05-2012 02:06 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  If one knew that one's belief was a "bullshit conspiracy", it's doubtful that the person would continue that belief. But if we assume that they don't know, isn't it fair to say that there are reasons for non-idiots to believe?
No.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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27-05-2012, 03:27 PM
RE: Us vs Them
I think the more experience "us" has with "them", demands a determined degree of cooperation to work toward empathy. Once empathy is mutually recognized, there is no "us" or "them". Humans are really all we are.


Eventually, we all end up in the same little boat in a vast sea of stars. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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27-05-2012, 05:07 PM
RE: Us vs Them
(27-05-2012 02:33 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(27-05-2012 02:13 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I never really liked the term Us VS Them.... It seems to me like it should be Us trying to get Them to see reason.
Atheists are not the ones provoking the religious, they had that monopoly a long time ago when they introduced the wicked concept of Hell. My signiture is a valid point on this. The religious, by their own creeds, are the ones starting, and escalating the above mentality that you brought up.
The Hatfields and the McCoys could both point to prior episodes where the other "started it first". You're making a blanket statement about "the religious" in general, trying to justify prejudice towards "Them".

Look, this is an issue that's very close to my heart. It pains me to see how often rational thought is rejected for conformity or bias towards one's belief (or non-belief). I'd love to see the whole world embrace rational thinking, but many religious find it inconvenient and many non-religious simply assume that their thoughts must already be rational because they share the conclusions that the rational came to. I hate to become a pariah by attacking my own group so often, but if atheists aren't going to embrace rationalism, then who the fuck will?
I wasn't trying to justify anything of the sort. I am sorry if that's what you gathered from it, but this was not my intention. as for some Atheists being unreasonable, well I certainly agree on that point. I have seen some on the internet, but of course I may be wrong.

As for the claim that I was making a blanket claim.... You may be right. I was foolish to simply put religious, perhaps I should have put the Abrahamic Religions instead. In history, and perhaps in modern days, you tend to see "religious" (By quotes I mean the ones with the dogma, or creed, of Hell) condemning any form of a different belief (or non belief). I have not, nor do I reasonably expect to, seen, and see, Atheists killing people in the name of non-belief.

it is my personal opinion that Religions tend to divide, with a misguided attempt to unify, peoples of different races, and cultures.

It was simply my view that religions tend to encourage the Us Vs Them mentality more than atheistic or agnostic types of beliefs.

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27-05-2012, 06:34 PM
RE: Us vs Them
Hey, Kim.

Quote:Needs met=humans thrive; Needs not met=humans die.

I had a really wonderful experience when I read that. That was really eloquent; sublime really. Thank you.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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27-05-2012, 07:25 PM
RE: Us vs Them
(27-05-2012 05:07 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  It was simply my view that religions tend to encourage the Us Vs Them mentality more than atheistic or agnostic types of beliefs.
Sorry to blow up at you. There are some things I clearly can't discuss dispassionately.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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