Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
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30-12-2012, 12:59 PM
RE: Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
(30-12-2012 11:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 11:48 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I can agree with that. An off-duty policeman, might have been able to stop it had there been one there. That's not the same as taking a training class, which is more akin to traffic school, for concealed weapons. I think you'd have to agree the police and military go through far greater training.
I think you have too much confidence in police firearms training and practice.

Maybe,but it's longer and probably more involved than the class to carry a concealed weapon. You're taking a four hour (i actually looked one class up) course and comparing it to weeks of training. It's like saying, I've taken a class on business law -- so that makes me a better lawyer than people who actually attended law school and passed the bar exam for their state.

So, yes, perhaps I do have more confidence in the police training than the person taking a class. There aren't any classes I'm aware of required to purchase a handgun.
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30-12-2012, 01:05 PM
RE: Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
(30-12-2012 11:24 AM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 11:00 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  That's complete speculation. You can't possibly know that.

Yes you can know that. It at least gives you a chance.

Thousands of good people w guns stop/prevent bad people with guns all the time. Just dont expect to see it on the news
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/13...palace.htm


Crazy dude's g/f breaks up with him. He goes on a rampage shooting at people at a Chinese restaurant. Heads for a movie theater across the parking lot. Off duty cop carrying her gun shoots him. No one died.

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30-12-2012, 01:05 PM
RE: Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
(30-12-2012 12:59 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 11:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  I think you have too much confidence in police firearms training and practice.

Maybe,but it's longer and probably more involved than the class to carry a concealed weapon. You're taking a four hour (i actually looked one class up) course and comparing it to weeks of training. It's like saying, I've taken a class on business law -- so that makes me a better lawyer than people who actually attended law school and passed the bar exam for their state.

So, yes, perhaps I do have more confidence in the police training than the person taking a class. There aren't any classes I'm aware of required to purchase a handgun.
I am certainly not disagreeing with you, except maybe about police.

However, a level-headed person with a firearm could have stopped this madman.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-12-2012, 02:42 PM
RE: Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
(30-12-2012 01:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 12:59 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Maybe,but it's longer and probably more involved than the class to carry a concealed weapon. You're taking a four hour (i actually looked one class up) course and comparing it to weeks of training. It's like saying, I've taken a class on business law -- so that makes me a better lawyer than people who actually attended law school and passed the bar exam for their state.

So, yes, perhaps I do have more confidence in the police training than the person taking a class. There aren't any classes I'm aware of required to purchase a handgun.
I am certainly not disagreeing with you, except maybe about police.

However, a level-headed person with a firearm could have stopped this madman.

I can accept that. :-)

Take care!!!
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30-12-2012, 05:16 PM
RE: Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
(30-12-2012 11:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 11:00 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  That's complete speculation. You can't possibly know that.
I can knowledgeably estimate the probability.
What about the probability of a scared to death teacher who's extremely jumpy shots another staff member or worst a child?

Take the Batman massacre for example. That was pitch black of a cinema, there was smoke and shit, people running all around. What is the probability that someone, scared for their life, jumpy, shoots someone besides the shooter?
Pretty high on my estimate.

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30-12-2012, 05:32 PM
RE: Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
(30-12-2012 05:16 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 11:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  I can knowledgeably estimate the probability.
What about the probability of a scared to death teacher who's extremely jumpy shots another staff member or worst a child?

Take the Batman massacre for example. That was pitch black of a cinema, there was smoke and shit, people running all around. What is the probability that someone, scared for their life, jumpy, shoots someone besides the shooter?
Pretty high on my estimate.
It's just as easy to assume that without the gun the person getting the friendly fire would get shot anyway. Friendly fire happens but it's fairly rare. Thousands upon thousands of crimes are prevented each year in the US by a 'good guy' with a gun. Most of them end without a shot being fired. And since we can't count how many crimes don't even occur because of the possibility of being stopped by someone with a gun we can't use that in argument but I bet it happens a lot.

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30-12-2012, 05:35 PM
RE: Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
(30-12-2012 05:32 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 05:16 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  What about the probability of a scared to death teacher who's extremely jumpy shots another staff member or worst a child?

Take the Batman massacre for example. That was pitch black of a cinema, there was smoke and shit, people running all around. What is the probability that someone, scared for their life, jumpy, shoots someone besides the shooter?
Pretty high on my estimate.
It's just as easy to assume that without the gun the person getting the friendly fire would get shot anyway. Friendly fire happens but it's fairly rare. Thousands upon thousands of crimes are prevented each year in the US by a 'good guy' with a gun. Most of them end without a shot being fired. And since we can't count how many crimes don't even occur because of the possibility of being stopped by someone with a gun we can't use that in argument but I bet it happens a lot.
And what about those robberies that were simply armed robbery but because the clerk decided to play hero got a shotgun shell to the face?

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30-12-2012, 05:51 PM
RE: Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
(30-12-2012 05:35 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 05:32 PM)germanyt Wrote:  It's just as easy to assume that without the gun the person getting the friendly fire would get shot anyway. Friendly fire happens but it's fairly rare. Thousands upon thousands of crimes are prevented each year in the US by a 'good guy' with a gun. Most of them end without a shot being fired. And since we can't count how many crimes don't even occur because of the possibility of being stopped by someone with a gun we can't use that in argument but I bet it happens a lot.
And what about those robberies that were simply armed robbery but because the clerk decided to play hero got a shotgun shell to the face?
Hindsight is 20/20. I'm not gonna take it on faith that the robber won't shoot me after I empty the register. If I'm being held up with a gun I'm much rather take my chances by having a gun of my own than just hope for the best.

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30-12-2012, 07:32 PM
RE: Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
(30-12-2012 05:32 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 05:16 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  What about the probability of a scared to death teacher who's extremely jumpy shots another staff member or worst a child?

Take the Batman massacre for example. That was pitch black of a cinema, there was smoke and shit, people running all around. What is the probability that someone, scared for their life, jumpy, shoots someone besides the shooter?
Pretty high on my estimate.
It's just as easy to assume that without the gun the person getting the friendly fire would get shot anyway. Friendly fire happens but it's fairly rare. Thousands upon thousands of crimes are prevented each year in the US by a 'good guy' with a gun. Most of them end without a shot being fired. And since we can't count how many crimes don't even occur because of the possibility of being stopped by someone with a gun we can't use that in argument but I bet it happens a lot.
I doubt it does, but you are always entitled to your opinion.

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30-12-2012, 07:39 PM
RE: Utah teachers attend free concealed weapons training class.
(30-12-2012 07:32 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 05:32 PM)germanyt Wrote:  It's just as easy to assume that without the gun the person getting the friendly fire would get shot anyway. Friendly fire happens but it's fairly rare. Thousands upon thousands of crimes are prevented each year in the US by a 'good guy' with a gun. Most of them end without a shot being fired. And since we can't count how many crimes don't even occur because of the possibility of being stopped by someone with a gun we can't use that in argument but I bet it happens a lot.
I doubt it does, but you are always entitled to your opinion.
It's not just opinion, there is plenty of evidence.

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