Utterly Disgusting
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
09-05-2015, 06:29 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(08-05-2015 09:59 AM)Dom Wrote:  I did cover that already. Because evolution always looks for a better way, we are endowed with varying strengths of all human traits. There are people who have so much empathy that it hurts to go through life seeing suffering everywhere, and there are people with next to no empathy, and everything in between. The same is the case with all human traits. Just like we all have eyes and noses and mouths in our face, exactly how they look differs from person to person. Our instincts, hormonal balance, chemical balance and such also differs. We are all born with our own unique combination of characteristics.

If I could measure your level of empathy (of course, I can't), I could pretty much predict what you would do with the wallet.

There's a couple of problems here.

Let's say we conduct an experiment using wallets, we drop a bunch of wallets with a hundred dollars in cash, on the NY subway system, let's say 10 wallets, through out the year. Do you really imagine that most people who found these wallets will return it to their owners with cash in tact?

Secondly, you seem to perceive empathy as static. My goto example here, is that though many of us eat chicken, the thought of having to kill our own chicken would be quite difficult for us. I remember during a military survival training one of our instructors went through the motions of killing a live rabbit, and everyone of us tough strong marines winced. When the instructor didn't follow through on his actions, we were all relieved. We all felt a sort of empathy for this cute animal about to be killed, though we all would been fine eating a cooked version of it.

But the reality here is missing. The only reason we felt that way is because none of us every had to kill our own food, somebody somewhere else did. If we did have to do this, that sort of feeling, the tinge of empathy for the rabbit we felt than would likely have evaporated by the second or third rabbit we had to kill.

It's sort of like disgust, when my wife worked as a CNA, the thought of having to wipe people asses, see them at their worst, made her nauseas, revolted by the very thought of her job. But she got over it, and those feelings are not there anymore. She developed a tolerance.

Let's say you were a bit tight on cash, and you found a persons wallet with a hundred dollars inside, that money could be used to buy something you really wanted to begin with, something nice for yourself, but couldn't afford at the time. You keep the money, and leave the wallet behind.

What do you think would follow? You'd perhaps feel a strong tinge of feelings often labeled as guilt. And you just remind yourself here, that this is just a feeling, just like the feeling of an upset stomach, nothing more than a bit of discomfort. Do you not recognize that this discomfort will likely begin to fade, and perhaps even be non-existent overtime, perhaps right after you buy that nice thing that you liked?

The likelihood is that after you've gotten over you first act of theft, if the situation repeated itself again, those same feelings likely would not have surfaced again, or if it did, it would be in a far more diminished form.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Tomasia's post
09-05-2015, 06:52 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(07-05-2015 02:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And which act of killing every human being are we talking about here? The Great Flood? If you didn't read the rest of the story, God repented of it, was remorseful of his actions, realized he didn't think it through before he did it, so he gave man a peace offering of a rainbow to make up for it, and promised not to repeat himself. I think that was a fair trade.

Proving yet again that you are a moral midget. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Chas's post
09-05-2015, 06:55 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(09-05-2015 06:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-05-2015 02:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And which act of killing every human being are we talking about here? The Great Flood? If you didn't read the rest of the story, God repented of it, was remorseful of his actions, realized he didn't think it through before he did it, so he gave man a peace offering of a rainbow to make up for it, and promised not to repeat himself. I think that was a fair trade.

Proving yet again that you are a moral midget. Drinking Beverage

Why are you insulting midgets?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like unfogged's post
09-05-2015, 07:26 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(09-05-2015 06:55 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 06:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  Proving yet again that you are a moral midget. Drinking Beverage

Why are you insulting midgets?

Moral moron?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-05-2015, 09:27 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(09-05-2015 07:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 06:55 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Why are you insulting midgets?

Moral moron?

Morally myopic?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Free Thought's post
09-05-2015, 01:11 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2015 01:16 PM by Dom.)
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(09-05-2015 06:29 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(08-05-2015 09:59 AM)Dom Wrote:  I did cover that already. Because evolution always looks for a better way, we are endowed with varying strengths of all human traits. There are people who have so much empathy that it hurts to go through life seeing suffering everywhere, and there are people with next to no empathy, and everything in between. The same is the case with all human traits. Just like we all have eyes and noses and mouths in our face, exactly how they look differs from person to person. Our instincts, hormonal balance, chemical balance and such also differs. We are all born with our own unique combination of characteristics.

If I could measure your level of empathy (of course, I can't), I could pretty much predict what you would do with the wallet.

There's a couple of problems here.

Let's say we conduct an experiment using wallets, we drop a bunch of wallets with a hundred dollars in cash, on the NY subway system, let's say 10 wallets, through out the year. Do you really imagine that most people who found these wallets will return it to their owners with cash in tact?

What does that have to do with anything? If you drop the same wallets in a country store, how many people will return them? I don't see how that has anything to do with anything....

Quote:Secondly, you seem to perceive empathy as static. My goto example here, is that though many of us eat chicken, the thought of having to kill our own chicken would be quite difficult for us. I remember during a military survival training one of our instructors went through the motions of killing a live rabbit, and everyone of us tough strong marines winced. When the instructor didn't follow through on his actions, we were all relieved. We all felt a sort of empathy for this cute animal about to be killed, though we all would been fine eating a cooked version of it.

That just proves what I have been saying - social evolution has shifted from eliminating the overly emphatic to eliminating the ones without empathy. And yes, people become calloused when exposed to certain things day in and day out. That is real time learning. I also talked about that.

Quote:But the reality here is missing. The only reason we felt that way is because none of us every had to kill our own food, somebody somewhere else did. If we did have to do this, that sort of feeling, the tinge of empathy for the rabbit we felt than would likely have evaporated by the second or third rabbit we had to kill.

Maybe for you. I might go kill myself that night because I cannot stand the horror. You also have Vegans these days who have enough empathy for animals to cease using them for food. If I survived the nightmares, I would likely turn Vegan after that experience. Again, what does that have to do with morals versus empathy?

Quote:It's sort of like disgust, when my wife worked as a CNA, the thought of having to wipe people asses, see them at their worst, made her nauseas, revolted by the very thought of her job. But she got over it, and those feelings are not there anymore. She developed a tolerance.

So she became calloused through real time learning. If we didn't have built in coping mechanisms, we would have been extinct ages ago. I hate that stuff too, but have taken care of ill persons myself.

Quote:Let's say you were a bit tight on cash, and you found a persons wallet with a hundred dollars inside, that money could be used to buy something you really wanted to begin with, something nice for yourself, but couldn't afford at the time. You keep the money, and leave the wallet behind.

If I knew the wallet belongs to Donald Trump I might. He won't even miss it. Again, I think you don't understand my point, this has nothing to do with it.

Quote:What do you think would follow? You'd perhaps feel a strong tinge of feelings often labeled as guilt. And you just remind yourself here, that this is just a feeling, just like the feeling of an upset stomach, nothing more than a bit of discomfort. Do you not recognize that this discomfort will likely begin to fade, and perhaps even be non-existent overtime, perhaps right after you buy that nice thing that you liked?

I wasn't raised on guilt and don't tend to feel guilty. If the owner was our Donald, I would feel nothing as he would feel nothing. If it was some Joe the Plumber, I would not have taken it. The folks in your New York subway, however, might get calloused through real time learning as you indicate. So?

Quote:The likelihood is that after you've gotten over you first act of theft, if the situation repeated itself again, those same feelings likely would not have surfaced again, or if it did, it would be in a far more diminished form.

You clearly do not have an excess of empathy and don't understand the implications. Maybe you should not use me personally as an example, as my reactions are not the norm. The norm is medium amounts of empathy.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Nothing you did say contradicts that we are all born equipped with varying amounts of many attributes. You pointed out that there is real time learning going on, which I don't dispute. We all have an instinct of self preservation as well. That instinct dictates that we adapt to societal situations, because otherwise we would perish.

PS. By the way, I have raised pigs for food. They had an acre to roam, toys to play with, a mud bath with sprinklers, and when the time came, the butcher simply walked up to them and shot them in the head. No pain, no horror, a good life. Excellent meat.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
10-05-2015, 09:26 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
Phil should stick to fucks, I mean ducks.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-05-2015, 11:11 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(09-05-2015 09:27 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 07:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  Moral moron?

Morally myopic?


Morally Inept

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-05-2015, 11:16 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2015 12:56 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(09-05-2015 06:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-05-2015 02:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And which act of killing every human being are we talking about here? The Great Flood? If you didn't read the rest of the story, God repented of it, was remorseful of his actions, realized he didn't think it through before he did it, so he gave man a peace offering of a rainbow to make up for it, and promised not to repeat himself. I think that was a fair trade.

Proving yet again that you are a moral midget. Drinking Beverage

Morally suspect? Absolutely. But it also belies a complete ignorance of physics if he thinks that raindrops started to refract light only after a deity drowned the entire world's population as a form of apology; instead of you know, restoring everyone back to life, which was also clearly within his power to do. Dodgy

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
11-05-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(10-05-2015 11:16 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 06:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  Proving yet again that you are a moral midget. Drinking Beverage

Morally suspect? Absolutely. But it also belies a complete ignorance of physics if he thinks that raindrops started to refract light only after a deity drowned the entire world's population as a form of apology; instead of you know, restoring everyone back to life, which was also clearly within his power to do. Dodgy

Yea, but bringing them back to life doesn't have the same sort of chutzpah, as keeping them dead, and then regretting it and offering condolences. It's apparently within his power to know the results before hand, that the the act was to be futile, but apparently he didn't. He was startled by the fact that he was left with the same problem he begun with.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Tomasia's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: