Utterly Disgusting
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11-05-2015, 05:24 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(11-05-2015 04:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  Once again, which is it? Is the God of the Old Testament a different God than in the New Testament?

No, it's the same God.

Quote:You seem to want to have your cake and eat it, too.

Well, sometimes you can have your cake and eat it too.
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11-05-2015, 05:26 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(11-05-2015 05:20 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-05-2015 04:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Well, yeah. Anyone who has read the bible realises the character of God evolved as the book was compiled.

Just because the Hebrew writer/s wrote a story in which the God character is startled, surprised, befuddled, less than omnipotent, doesn't mean that they believed he was less than omnipotent. Nor does it follow that the writers of the stories imagined themselves as writing historical accounts of a past they were not a part of. As if these writers imagined that God breathed into them these insights as to what happened ages ago before their own existence, and they penned these events down.

This doesn't seem to be the case by a long shot, competing stories of Genesis written side by side, the hebrew interpretive histories, etc.. suggest that these writing were viewed a bit differently that how a rabid fundie might believe.

They wrote stories, stories which often encapsulated their histories, their reflections on life and meaning, and their grappling with the question of God. If you seek to understand their purpose and meanings you have to deal with them as stories first, before anything else.

We see them as stories and myths.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-05-2015, 05:27 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(11-05-2015 05:24 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-05-2015 04:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  Once again, which is it? Is the God of the Old Testament a different God than in the New Testament?

No, it's the same God.

So, which stories are accurate? Some or none? They can't all be.

Quote:
Quote:You seem to want to have your cake and eat it, too.

Well, sometimes you can have your cake and eat it too.

No, you can't. It is a logical impossibility.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-05-2015, 05:29 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(09-05-2015 01:11 PM)Dom Wrote:  That just proves what I have been saying - social evolution has shifted from eliminating the overly emphatic to eliminating the ones without empathy. And yes, people become calloused when exposed to certain things day in and day out. That is real time learning. I also talked about that.

I'm not sure what you mean here by social evolution? Is it the same as biological evolution?

And how exactly are the overly empathic being favored here as opposed to the less empathic? Are they producing more children?

Are the less empathic being weeded out by producing less offspring?
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11-05-2015, 05:31 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(11-05-2015 05:20 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-05-2015 04:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Well, yeah. Anyone who has read the bible realises the character of God evolved as the book was compiled.

Just because the Hebrew writer/s wrote a story in which the God character is startled, surprised, befuddled, less than omnipotent, doesn't mean that they believed he was less than omnipotent. Nor does it follow that the writers of the stories imagined themselves as writing historical accounts of a past they were not a part of. As if these writers imagined that God breathed into them these insights as to what happened ages ago before their own existence, and they penned these events down.

This doesn't seem to be the case by a long shot, competing stories of Genesis written side by side, the hebrew interpretive histories, etc.. suggest that these writing were viewed a bit differently that how a rabid fundie might believe.

They wrote stories, stories which often encapsulated their histories, their reflections on life and meaning, and their grappling with the question of God. If you seek to understand their purpose and meanings you have to deal with them as stories first, before anything else.

God who has a serious superiority complex is okay with some lowly man writing stuff about him like this: "startled, surprised, befuddled, less than omnipotent" in His own book? I guess I am confused--are you saying the Bible was not written by God through scribes? If so, then why did "god' put this in his book: 2 Timothy 3:15-17

"and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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11-05-2015, 05:35 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(07-05-2015 02:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And which act of killing every human being are we talking about here? The Great Flood? If you didn't read the rest of the story, God repented of it, was remorseful of his actions, realized he didn't think it through before he did it, so he gave man a peace offering of a rainbow to make up for it, and promised not to repeat himself. I think that was a fair trade.

I think any omnipotent creator being that's susceptible to impulsively (although he had plenty of time to change his mind) annihilating his creation in anger should turn in his resignation. I mean, it'd be one thing to be a cold, calculating designer that wants to scrap and start over, but to be so fickle and prone to rageful murder-fests, followed by regret and promises to be better...I think he should find a new hobby.

And I think you greatly overvalue rainbows..
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11-05-2015, 05:42 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(11-05-2015 05:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  So, which stories are accurate?

Historically accurate?

If so, than perhaps the ones often recognized by historians as having some historical validity behind them, where the writers seem to be using actual events and people as part of their religious writings.
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11-05-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(11-05-2015 05:31 PM)jennybee Wrote:  God who has a serious superiority complex is okay with some lowly man writing stuff about him like this: "startled, surprised, befuddled, less than omnipotent" in His own book? I guess I am confused--are you saying the Bible was not written by God through scribes? If so, then why did "god' put this in his book: 2 Timothy 3:15-17

"16 All scripture is inspired by God and is[a] useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

Inspiration, God breathed, doesn't mean God dictated, it just means inspired, like a poem I may have wrote was inspired by my wife. Even Jesus refers to passages, and certain instructions in the OT as ones Moses instructed.
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11-05-2015, 06:03 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(11-05-2015 05:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-05-2015 05:31 PM)jennybee Wrote:  God who has a serious superiority complex is okay with some lowly man writing stuff about him like this: "startled, surprised, befuddled, less than omnipotent" in His own book? I guess I am confused--are you saying the Bible was not written by God through scribes? If so, then why did "god' put this in his book: 2 Timothy 3:15-17

"16 All scripture is inspired by God and is[a] useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

Inspiration, God breathed, doesn't mean God dictated, it just means inspired, like a poem I may have wrote was inspired by my wife. Even Jesus refers to passages, and certain instructions in the OT as ones Moses instructed.

I agree with you that people wrote the Bible--and were inspired by the deity they believed in. However, if this is true and humans were inspired by their love for their god to write such things--how can we believe any of it to be true when we only have their inspirational musings to go on?

There are christians who believe that the bible is literally god's word. From 2 Peter 1:

"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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11-05-2015, 06:04 PM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(11-05-2015 11:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If they assume the God character in the Flood story, as well as some other OT stories is omnipotent, it would likely just indicate that they haven't really read the stories, or just glanced over these conflicting details.

So let me see if I'm understanding right here.
1. An omnipotent (omniscient? omnibenevolent?) god exists
2. The Bible is his message to mankind
3. The Bible's content is largely false if taken literally
4. Taking the holy spirit as the only available guide to interpreting the book, many conflicting interpretations emerge justifying both good and evil.

If the Bible is god's message to mankind, what exactly is he trying to communicate through it and in what way does this form of communication that seems to have such low information fidelity serve his purposes?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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