Utterly Disgusting
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06-05-2015, 07:31 AM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2015 07:35 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(06-05-2015 01:33 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  be targeted by atheists if we genuinely had no concept of right and wrong and felt we could do whatever we wanted.

Is there a concept of right and wrong we can perceive that is not culturally based, or conditioned by our tribe?

Let's say I grew up in a tribe in which children born with handicaps were murdered, buried alive.

Would I be able to see their actions as wrong? Since they raised me to believe it wasn't?

If so, how?
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06-05-2015, 07:32 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(06-05-2015 02:19 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I hadn't heard something so idiotic and disgusting in a long time. Sheer idiocy of his speech leave me stunned. No god=no morality is idiotic concept, but then what one could expect from one capable of uttering such rubbish.

He's very graphic in all of his speeches. If that's what he truly believes i.e. atheists have no morals--then why no just say "I think belief in God facilitates good moral behavior." His family needs to reel him in.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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06-05-2015, 07:35 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(06-05-2015 06:02 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 09:19 PM)jennybee Wrote:  And atheists are the ones who are immoral, awful people...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/24/...34164.html

Why is it disgusting, because of the example he used was too vivid and violent? Or because you believe he was endorsing Atheists being murdered and raped?

He used a violent example to argue against a common atheists belief in moral relativism.

He could have argued his point without chopping people's heads off and raping someone's daughters. But then again--he does believe in the Bible and that stuff happens all the time in the "good" book.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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06-05-2015, 07:39 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(06-05-2015 07:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 06:38 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  One can illustrate the complexities of moral relativism without being a total douchebag. As a public figure, it's a responsibility he's shirking.

I don't think that's the case. I find that in order see that moral relativism is a sham, strong examples are needed.

I have to make my examples stronger and stronger, to get Stevel to acknowledge that there is right and wrong, and it's not just matter of his likes and dislikes. And that's because folks like him are more committed to this belief, like the victim in the Duck Dynasty guy's example.

Right, because atheism makes you a murderer, rapist, etc. and not psychopathic/sociopathic tendencies. We just had a case here in CA where a guy thought Revelations was talking to him and so he went to go kill a little boy to see what it felt like before the world was about to end. Now was that because he was a christian or because he had some mental issues??

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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06-05-2015, 07:39 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(06-05-2015 07:35 AM)jennybee Wrote:  He could have argued his point without chopping people's heads off and raping someone's daughters. But then again--he does believe in the Bible and that stuff happens all the time in the "good" book.

The vivid example, made his point a bit more obvious, left little wiggle room for the typical objections to less vivid examples.

Hence why the usual criticism don't address his point about morality at all, but focus exclusively on his chose of an example, because to address it, is much more difficult, so they chose the path of least resistance.
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06-05-2015, 07:40 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(06-05-2015 07:18 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 07:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I don't think that's the case. I find that in order see that moral relativism is a sham, strong examples are needed.

I have to make my examples stronger and stronger, to get Stevel to acknowledge that there is right and wrong, and it's not just matter of his likes and dislikes. And that's because folks like him are more committed to this belief, like the victim in the Duck Dynasty guy's example.

The sham is absolute morality. All examples are localized. The instinct towards moral absolutism is evolutionarily hard-wired, it's not a thing in itself. I can understand the emotional need to project a set of conditionals towards the general populous, especially in terms of societal regulation, however absolutism is untenable. That too is evolutionary.

Oh, and he's a douchebag because he's a douchebag. The localized example need not be graphically expressed.

Good point...and I'm making u a tofu smoothie lol Tongue

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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06-05-2015, 07:41 AM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2015 07:47 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(06-05-2015 07:32 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 02:19 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I hadn't heard something so idiotic and disgusting in a long time. Sheer idiocy of his speech leave me stunned. No god=no morality is idiotic concept, but then what one could expect from one capable of uttering such rubbish.

He's very graphic in all of his speeches. If that's what he truly believes i.e. atheists have no morals--then why no just say "I think belief in God facilitates good moral behavior." His family needs to reel him in.

That's more than graphic. About saying this differently - I think he said this that way cause he wanted more people to comment on it. Neutral statement that you proposing is not something to discuss so lively, after all it's quite popular opinion.

(06-05-2015 07:39 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 07:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I don't think that's the case. I find that in order see that moral relativism is a sham, strong examples are needed.

I have to make my examples stronger and stronger, to get Stevel to acknowledge that there is right and wrong, and it's not just matter of his likes and dislikes. And that's because folks like him are more committed to this belief, like the victim in the Duck Dynasty guy's example.

Right, because atheism makes you a murderer, rapist, etc. and not psychopathic/sociopathic tendencies. We just had a case here in CA where a guy thought Revelations was talking to him and so he went to go kill a little boy to see what it felt like before the world was about to end. Now was that because he was a christian or because he had some mental issues??

Didn't you know it? If one were to measure scale of atheism evilness then one should imagine offspring of Sauron and Cruella de Vil to have something even remotely comparable to evil that is atheism.

Seriously though claiming that atheists are immoral or saying that if there is no god then everything is permitted is idiotic, yet common tactics of religious nuts.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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06-05-2015, 07:42 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(06-05-2015 07:39 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Right, because atheism makes you a murderer, rapist, etc. and not psychopathic/sociopathic tendencies.

Uhm, that's was never implied or suggested by what he said. In fact it's not the rapist and murder who is the atheist in his example, but the victim himself.
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06-05-2015, 07:44 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(06-05-2015 07:41 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 07:32 AM)jennybee Wrote:  He's very graphic in all of his speeches. If that's what he truly believes i.e. atheists have no morals--then why no just say "I think belief in God facilitates good moral behavior." His family needs to reel him in.

That's more than graphic. About saying this differently - I think he said this that way cause he wanted more people to comment on it. Neutral statement that you proposing is not something to discuss so lively, after all it's quite popular opinion.

Right, well, they pay him for his crazy...

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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06-05-2015, 07:47 AM
RE: Utterly Disgusting
(06-05-2015 06:26 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  What do you expect from someone who makes a living being a moronic hillbilly???

.........

*redneck

The only "Hills" in Louisiana are my family.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
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