Poll: What is your opinion of Vaccines/Vaccine Policy?
Vaccines saved the world. Bring them on.
I don't entirely trust big pharma, but vaccines have done more good than harm.
Some vaccines are effective and useful. Some are not.
Vaccines are of questionable value, like many pharmaceuticals, but I might want one if an epidemic hits.
Vaccines cause more health problems than they prevent. Parents and individuals should have the right to refuse any/all of them.
Vaccines are part of a population-reduction conspiracy on the part of the global elite and are intended to sterilize/kill as many as possible.
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Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
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01-05-2014, 06:31 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(01-05-2014 08:11 AM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(30-04-2014 11:34 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Antibiotics are *all about* stimulating the immune system to develop its natural antibodies to combat infections. Building stronger immune systems is fucking *precisely* what they do. But thanks for demonstrating conclusively that you don't have a fucking clue what you are babbling on about.

You need to re-read your own statement and see if you have any clue what *you're* talking about. No offense intended, but I really don't think you comprehend all of the concepts that have been discussed in this thread.

But hey, at least you're really pissed, which is the first sign of rational thought...


I said "Antibiotics" when I meant "Vaccines". My point stands and you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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01-05-2014, 06:41 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(01-05-2014 06:08 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  All of that was primarily in response to cjlr.

Thank you for calling me out. I made an assertion that demanded evidence. Take that evidence as you will.

There ARE problems with some of the studies, as there are problems with virtually all studies I have read on these and related subjects. I acknowledge this and hope matters improve in decades to come (on both sides of any argument).

No, you made an assertion that demanded evidence -- from you. Because you made the assertion.

What problems are there? What studies have you read? Are the problems with the studies, or your understanding of the studies? From the poll results, it would seem the latter.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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01-05-2014, 07:07 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
Magellan, I don't have time yet to refute some of those claims on vax deaths but I am curious how you determine they are valid.

for hundreds of children to die 24 hours after vaccination is no small matter, but to pick the vax as the cause, is Bad Science, why are no other countries or even regions around that incident having the same mortality rate, to jump to an antivax position would be like questioning the global consumption of lettuce if a salmonella outbreak happened in one super market.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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01-05-2014, 07:24 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(01-05-2014 07:07 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Magellan, I don't have time yet to refute some of those claims on vax deaths but I am curious how you determine they are valid.

for hundreds of children to die 24 hours after vaccination is no small matter, but to pick the vax as the cause, is Bad Science, why are no other countries or even regions around that incident having the same mortality rate, to jump to an antivax position would be like questioning the global consumption of lettuce if a salmonella outbreak happened in one super market.

Please don't misunderstand. I do not claim that every case of autoimmunity is caused by vaccination, nor that autoimmune diseases are necessarily fatal. My claim is that there is solid laboratory evidence of vaccine-induced autoimmunity (if not for all manifested types of autoimmune disease). How much suffering results, it is utterly impossible to deduce.
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01-05-2014, 07:28 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(01-05-2014 06:41 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  
(01-05-2014 06:08 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  All of that was primarily in response to cjlr.

Thank you for calling me out. I made an assertion that demanded evidence. Take that evidence as you will.

There ARE problems with some of the studies, as there are problems with virtually all studies I have read on these and related subjects. I acknowledge this and hope matters improve in decades to come (on both sides of any argument).

No, you made an assertion that demanded evidence -- from you. Because you made the assertion.

What problems are there? What studies have you read? Are the problems with the studies, or your understanding of the studies? From the poll results, it would seem the latter.

Poll results are not science.
My opinion is not science.
Your opinion is not science.
Some scientific studies are bullshit, and not science.
The ONLY way to get something close to an accurate picture of the
facts is to read hundreds of studies and papers and make up your own mind.
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01-05-2014, 07:35 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
So basically, you believe you as a layperson are better equipped to research and scientific papers than the Center for Disease Control, the American Academy of Pedeatrics, the World Health Organization, and anyone else who holds PHD in medicine, because you read some articles?

Are you also a qualified surgeon and oncologist because you watched House, and a couple A&D documentaries?

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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01-05-2014, 07:43 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(01-05-2014 07:35 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  So basically, you believe you as a layperson are better equipped to research and scientific papers than the Center for Disease Control, the American Academy of Pedeatrics, the World Health Organization, and anyone else who holds PHD in medicine, because you read some articles?

Are you also a qualified surgeon and oncologist because you watched House, and a couple A&D documentaries?

Are those persons and agencies the only ones who should form opinions based upon available information? Do you avoid looking at stars because Galileo and Sagan already handled that for you? Do none of us here have a right to an informed opinion -including you - because the authorities have them for us?

Beware that road.
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01-05-2014, 08:07 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2014 08:12 PM by Magellan35.)
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(01-05-2014 06:15 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  All just correlation. You have in no way demonstrated causation. Anyone who routinely obtains medical care for ANY reason, is more likely to have a vaccine recommended. Therefore ALL your stats, as they stand are worthless.

On that note, temporal correlation, even anecdotal (in sufficient numbers), is viewed by scientists as suggestive and of worth, in that they recommend further study, including - ideally - animal and tissue studies. There is plenty of research that simply does not happen because of politics and lack of funding. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be done; nor does it mean that correlations should raise no questions.

I want to be entirely clear that the mortality data is only there to demonstrate that autoimmune diseases are non-trivial causes of death in our society. Nothing more was intended, and I apologize if anything more seemed to be implied.
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01-05-2014, 08:14 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(01-05-2014 07:43 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(01-05-2014 07:35 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  So basically, you believe you as a layperson are better equipped to research and scientific papers than the Center for Disease Control, the American Academy of Pedeatrics, the World Health Organization, and anyone else who holds PHD in medicine, because you read some articles?

Are you also a qualified surgeon and oncologist because you watched House, and a couple A&D documentaries?

Are those persons and agencies the only ones who should form opinions based upon available information? Do you avoid looking at stars because Galileo and Sagan already handled that for you? Do none of us here have a right to an informed opinion -including you - because the authorities have them for us?

Beware that road.

LOL CONSPIRACY! Hobo


Fucking moron.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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01-05-2014, 08:18 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(01-05-2014 08:07 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(01-05-2014 06:15 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  All just correlation. You have in no way demonstrated causation. Anyone who routinely obtains medical care for ANY reason, is more likely to have a vaccine recommended. Therefore ALL your stats, as they stand are worthless.

On that note, temporal correlation, even anecdotal (in sufficient numbers), is viewed by scientists as suggestive and of worth, in that they recommend further study, including - ideally - animal and tissue studies. There is plenty of research that simply does not happen because of politics and lack of funding. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be done; nor does it mean that correlations should raise no questions.

I want to be entirely clear that the mortality data is only there to demonstrate that autoimmune diseases are non-trivial causes of death in our society. Nothing more was intended, and I apologize if anything more seemed to be implied.

You're still just playing the conspiracy card. IF there were actually a reason to do any (more) research on the subject, the rewards, should they prove causation, for the individuals involved would be enormous. Nothing would actually stop them. Heart disease is also a "non-trivial" cause of death. So what ? There is no causation evidence. To get it, a huge longitudinal study which enrolled people BEFORE any comorbid conditions were identified would have to be done. Otherwise any recitation of correlative stats is irrelevant.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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