Poll: What is your opinion of Vaccines/Vaccine Policy?
Vaccines saved the world. Bring them on.
I don't entirely trust big pharma, but vaccines have done more good than harm.
Some vaccines are effective and useful. Some are not.
Vaccines are of questionable value, like many pharmaceuticals, but I might want one if an epidemic hits.
Vaccines cause more health problems than they prevent. Parents and individuals should have the right to refuse any/all of them.
Vaccines are part of a population-reduction conspiracy on the part of the global elite and are intended to sterilize/kill as many as possible.
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Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
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04-05-2014, 04:28 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(04-05-2014 03:03 PM)Foxen Wrote:  I honestly do tire of these vaccine threads.

I do not care how much the medical community states I need the flu shot.

I do not, and that is a fact. Maybe when I am an elderly man who has a weak immune system. Right now? Hardly.

I only ever had one flu shot, and I got the flu that winter.

I never had the flu before that and I have not had the flu since.

Vaccines can rot, as far as I am concerned.

Correlation does not prove causation.

Also, you would not be quite so able to shrug off polio, pertussis, or smallpox. So there's that. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-05-2014, 04:32 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(04-05-2014 02:55 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 03:27 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  And there's where you're wrong.

No. If anyone who questioned mainstream views was ignored or pushed back, medicine would stop progressing. That's not what's happening.
Actually, the exact opposite is happening. New ideas come up and get tested all the time. I don't see why we should be making that exception with vaccines specifically.

That is an area in which I am thrilled to be wrong. I was very encouraged by the article, in fact, and this is an area where I hope you see that I am far more pro-science than anti-vaccine.

As the article concludes, "Because of their genetic predisposition, some people will not respond to the current measles vaccine, even with additional boosters. By the same token, the genetic predisposition of others makes them susceptible to harm from the measles vaccine, leading to public wariness, including among the well educated. What is needed, suggests Dr. Poland, is for the public health establishment to accept that the current measles vaccine has so many drawbacks as to make it unworkable, and get on with the job of developing next-generation vaccines.

"This next generation vaccine technology, which his Mayo Clinic group is helping pioneer, marries vaccinology with genomics to create personalized, rather than one-size-fits-all, vaccines. Through this new medical discipline of “vaccinomics,” a term he dubbed, medical science will not only have the wherewithal to finally achieve the decades-long dream of eradicating measles and other diseases, he believes, but will also do so at lower cost while addressing the concerns of the educated public.

"As I will discuss in part two of this series next week, vaccinomics is no pie-in-the-sky fantasy but possibly the next big coming thing."

If the issues I have raised throughout this thread are nothing but bullshit, please explain why "one of the world’s most admired, most advanced thinkers in the field of vaccinology" is advising for the above paradigm shift. By the way, I would take a vaccine that was custom-made for my genome if I was at serious risk of contracting the disease and there was no risk of autoimmune reaction. This is a firm step in the right direction, and I'm happy to see it.

You may see that as a paradigm shift, I see it it as simply advancement of the medical technology based on new knowledge.

What we do now, with the available knowledge, is the best we can do. It works.
Nothing is perfect, and ranting about it unproductive.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-05-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(04-05-2014 04:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  Also, you would not be quite so able to shrug off polio, pertussis, or smallpox.

Irrelevant in comparison to the flu, considering that one can no longer contract polio or smallpox.
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04-05-2014, 04:49 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 04:55 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(04-05-2014 04:40 PM)Foxen Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 04:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  Also, you would not be quite so able to shrug off polio, pertussis, or smallpox.

Irrelevant in comparison to the flu, considering that one can no longer contract polio or smallpox.

Troll, moron, or moron troll = trollmon .Gasp

http://www.greenfacts.org/en/global-publ...nation.htm

Although the world was hoping to eradicate polio through vaccination programmes, the disease has re-emerged because of inadequate control. In 2003, the government in Nigeria decided to stop vaccinating children in parts of the country. This resulted in a large outbreak of polio that spread not only throughout Nigeria but also to previously polio-free countries in Africa, Asia and the Middle East. Outbreaks continued to emerge until 2006.

What if we stop ?
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm

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04-05-2014, 04:54 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 04:59 PM by Magellan35.)
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(04-05-2014 04:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 02:55 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  That is an area in which I am thrilled to be wrong. I was very encouraged by the article, in fact, and this is an area where I hope you see that I am far more pro-science than anti-vaccine.

As the article concludes, "Because of their genetic predisposition, some people will not respond to the current measles vaccine, even with additional boosters. By the same token, the genetic predisposition of others makes them susceptible to harm from the measles vaccine, leading to public wariness, including among the well educated. What is needed, suggests Dr. Poland, is for the public health establishment to accept that the current measles vaccine has so many drawbacks as to make it unworkable, and get on with the job of developing next-generation vaccines.

"This next generation vaccine technology, which his Mayo Clinic group is helping pioneer, marries vaccinology with genomics to create personalized, rather than one-size-fits-all, vaccines. Through this new medical discipline of “vaccinomics,” a term he dubbed, medical science will not only have the wherewithal to finally achieve the decades-long dream of eradicating measles and other diseases, he believes, but will also do so at lower cost while addressing the concerns of the educated public.

"As I will discuss in part two of this series next week, vaccinomics is no pie-in-the-sky fantasy but possibly the next big coming thing."

If the issues I have raised throughout this thread are nothing but bullshit, please explain why "one of the world’s most admired, most advanced thinkers in the field of vaccinology" is advising for the above paradigm shift. By the way, I would take a vaccine that was custom-made for my genome if I was at serious risk of contracting the disease and there was no risk of autoimmune reaction. This is a firm step in the right direction, and I'm happy to see it.

You may see that as a paradigm shift, I see it it as simply advancement of the medical technology based on new knowledge.

What we do now, with the available knowledge, is the best we can do. It works.
Nothing is perfect, and ranting about it unproductive.

It is a paradigm shift.

The "best we can do" has been far shittier than you think, parents have been crying foul for years (as have I just recently and in this thread), the industry has been ignoring them, and people like you have been marginalizing them as kooks, woo-lovers, and conspiracy theorists in every form of media.

Now, at last, a foremost proponent of vaccines proposes the kind of change that is needed and you say, "Yeah, that's just (routine) advancement of the medical technology..."

Whatever.
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04-05-2014, 05:03 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 05:13 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(04-05-2014 04:54 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 04:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  You may see that as a paradigm shift, I see it it as simply advancement of the medical technology based on new knowledge.

What we do now, with the available knowledge, is the best we can do. It works.
Nothing is perfect, and ranting about it unproductive.

It is a paradigm shift.

The "best we can do" has been far shittier than you think, parents have been crying foul for years (as have I), the industry has been ignoring them, and people like you have been marginalizing them as kooks, woo-lovers, and conspiracy theorists in every form of media.

Now, at last, a foremost proponent of vaccines proposes the kind of change that is needed and you say, "Yeah, that's just (routine) advancement of the medical technology..."

Whatever.

No one with half a brain would argue that vaccines are perfect and they don't require improvement,, you are shifting your argument to not look anti-vax.
And yes it is routine advancement in medical science, one that can be achieved if we don't have people like you sprouting this ignorant nonsense.

(04-05-2014 04:54 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  "more people now die or suffer morbidity from vaccine-induced health problems than would die if we stopped vaccinating and encouraged better diet and exercise "

Because Polio can't hurt you, if you eat your vegetables. Weeping

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04-05-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(04-05-2014 04:54 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  "more people now die or suffer morbidity from vaccine-induced health problems than would die if we stopped vaccinating and encouraged better diet and exercise "

I can't prove that statement, but I stand by it. You only think you can prove its opposite (because you don't seem to understand the impact of improving baseline health and nutrition; my evidence is your comments, this thread). We are therefore at an impasse.

My support of better application of current knowledge in future vaccine development does not make me "less anti-vax". It makes me "slightly more hopeful."
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04-05-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(04-05-2014 04:40 PM)Foxen Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 04:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  Also, you would not be quite so able to shrug off polio, pertussis, or smallpox.

Irrelevant in comparison to the flu, considering that one can no longer contract polio or smallpox.

Except people still do get those diseases because of anti-vaccination fuckheads.

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04-05-2014, 05:30 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(04-05-2014 05:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-05-2014 04:40 PM)Foxen Wrote:  Irrelevant in comparison to the flu, considering that one can no longer contract polio or smallpox.

Except people still do get those diseases because of anti-vaccination fuckheads.
Sources please. Let's see how they hold up.
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04-05-2014, 05:30 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(04-05-2014 05:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  Except people still do get those diseases because of anti-vaccination fuckheads.

I am not completely anti-vaccination. Just anti-flu-vaccination.

I apologize for the misunderstanding that has ensued since my posting in this thread.
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