Poll: What is your opinion of Vaccines/Vaccine Policy?
Vaccines saved the world. Bring them on.
I don't entirely trust big pharma, but vaccines have done more good than harm.
Some vaccines are effective and useful. Some are not.
Vaccines are of questionable value, like many pharmaceuticals, but I might want one if an epidemic hits.
Vaccines cause more health problems than they prevent. Parents and individuals should have the right to refuse any/all of them.
Vaccines are part of a population-reduction conspiracy on the part of the global elite and are intended to sterilize/kill as many as possible.
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Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
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07-05-2014, 10:24 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 10:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 04:40 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  I'm not home right now, but I can't wait to analyse the CDC's overhyped bullshit stats...

I can't wait to read you open-minded critique. Dodgy

Chas, Chas, Chas. I thought we covered this already?

IT R CONSPIRCY LOL I M SO SMRT U R SHEEPLE TROLOLOLOLOL.

Repeat as necessary.

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07-05-2014, 10:27 AM (This post was last modified: 07-05-2014 10:37 AM by djhall.)
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 05:59 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 05:20 PM)djhall Wrote:  Just because something may be good / bad for someone or society as a whole, we shouldn't automatically default to the implication that we have the right or obligation to legislatively force it upon those who disagree or don't consent.

When your decision affects everyone around you, then it's no longer about personal choice, is it?

Which is why I didn't say we shouldn't ever do it, or we can't do it, I just said we shouldn't automatically default to that assumption... if we need to force things on others, we should at least separately justify that need.

I only mention it because we seem to be moving as a society away from the common understanding that saying something "is better or worse" does not automatically imply "should be legal or illegal". It is getting to the point where if I tell someone I don't think we should make it illegal to sell 64-ounce sodas, the honest question I get asked in return is, "So, you think it is good to drink 64-ounces of soda?" No, of course not, but what the hell does that have to do with it? The distinction that these are separate concepts and arguments seems to get lost on people anymore.

I was only pointing out that the issue of a right to refuse should require additional justification and debate beyond, "Vaccines are good (so force them)" and "Vaccines bad (so don't force them)", which is the kind of thinking people seem to be adopting toward legislating things these days.
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07-05-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 10:05 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 09:03 AM)Magellan35 Wrote:  Is disease only spread by infants and children in your view?


Disease is spread from the contact of an infected person with someone who does not have the virus. You are trying to make this more complicated than it is. Or to somehow draw a conclusion that well, people get sick, therefore vaccines don't work.

You are missing the steps there.

You know the movie Outbreak? That was actually based on a true story of the almost outbreak we had in the United States (in Arlington, VA) of the Ebola Zaire virus. It was called African Motaba in the movie. It spreads like the flu, causing a hemorrahagic fever and killing you off within 96 hours with an R0 factor of 2.7.

If a person with the antibodies gets infected, the virus dies inside them and does not spread. People who are vulnerable should not be forced to stay inside their homes. Should we also require disabled individuals to stay home too because it puts stress on society to let them be ambulatory? I mean really...all that extra expense of having handicap accessible places is unnecessary since being disabled is really just their problem, eh? Thats what you are saying about the old, and the very young. Keep them inside! Away from the others! How about instead of forcing everyone to live like a hermit because of the junk scientific beliefs of a few, we require those few to stay away from the rest of us. I like that idea much better.
Now we're using Outbreak as evidence?

In Monte Python and the Holy Grail, all you need is a Grail for eternal life, so there's that...
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07-05-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 11:32 AM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 10:05 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Disease is spread from the contact of an infected person with someone who does not have the virus. You are trying to make this more complicated than it is. Or to somehow draw a conclusion that well, people get sick, therefore vaccines don't work.

You are missing the steps there.

You know the movie Outbreak? That was actually based on a true story of the almost outbreak we had in the United States (in Arlington, VA) of the Ebola Zaire virus. It was called African Motaba in the movie. It spreads like the flu, causing a hemorrahagic fever and killing you off within 96 hours with an R0 factor of 2.7.

If a person with the antibodies gets infected, the virus dies inside them and does not spread. People who are vulnerable should not be forced to stay inside their homes. Should we also require disabled individuals to stay home too because it puts stress on society to let them be ambulatory? I mean really...all that extra expense of having handicap accessible places is unnecessary since being disabled is really just their problem, eh? Thats what you are saying about the old, and the very young. Keep them inside! Away from the others! How about instead of forcing everyone to live like a hermit because of the junk scientific beliefs of a few, we require those few to stay away from the rest of us. I like that idea much better.
Now we're using Outbreak as evidence?

In Monte Python and the Holy Grail, all you need is a Grail for eternal life, so there's that...

Who the fuck said anything about me using a movie for evidence? I looked back at the comments. Nope. Not once did I say it was evidence. Can you read?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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07-05-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 10:23 AM)cjlr Wrote:  See, what you've done there is, you've not understood.

Prove it.
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07-05-2014, 11:39 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 11:36 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 11:32 AM)Magellan35 Wrote:  Now we're using Outbreak as evidence?

In Monte Python and the Holy Grail, all you need is a Grail for eternal life, so there's that...

Who the fuck said anything about me using a movie for evidence? I looked back at the comments. Nope. Not once did I say it was evidence. Can you read?
It was the best part of your argument.
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07-05-2014, 11:42 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 11:38 AM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 10:23 AM)cjlr Wrote:  See, what you've done there is, you've not understood.

Prove it.

How can we prove that you don't understand how disease spreads?

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07-05-2014, 11:45 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 11:39 AM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 11:36 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Who the fuck said anything about me using a movie for evidence? I looked back at the comments. Nope. Not once did I say it was evidence. Can you read?
It was the best part of your argument.

uh no. My argument is that vaccines are necessary. Your argument is that you just need to be healthy and you can beat whatever comes at you.

You will die from Ebola Zaire. No matter how much juice and power foods you eat.

Further - you seem to not understand that beating a virus doesn't mean you immunize yourself against them. you ever have the shingles? Based on your ignorance of virology, I wouldn't have gotten the shingles since I have already "beaten" the chickenpox.

E-coli hasn't killed me NOT because I have the antibodies. It is because of membrane barriers that prevent this bacteria from getting into my bloodstream. If I were to eat my own shit, I would get sick. You really are ignorant about bacteria, virology, medicine, biology and basically any scientific process.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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07-05-2014, 11:47 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 11:38 AM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 10:23 AM)cjlr Wrote:  See, what you've done there is, you've not understood.

Prove it.

Maybe you could start here.

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07-05-2014, 11:49 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
Here, you can learn how vaccines work.

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