Poll: What is your opinion of Vaccines/Vaccine Policy?
Vaccines saved the world. Bring them on.
I don't entirely trust big pharma, but vaccines have done more good than harm.
Some vaccines are effective and useful. Some are not.
Vaccines are of questionable value, like many pharmaceuticals, but I might want one if an epidemic hits.
Vaccines cause more health problems than they prevent. Parents and individuals should have the right to refuse any/all of them.
Vaccines are part of a population-reduction conspiracy on the part of the global elite and are intended to sterilize/kill as many as possible.
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Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
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07-05-2014, 03:46 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 03:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  I would have given up at the point where the articles I was posting that I claimed to support my position were in fact debunking them. You have to be a special kind of thick to not relent after that type of repeated embarrassment.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed that the articles he cites actually disprove his talking points. But the worst thing is that he fails to recognize it....

At some point, after he educates himself, I would pay money to see his reaction. I imagine its like Bruce Willis in the Sixth Sense when he finally realizes he has been dead the whole time.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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07-05-2014, 04:07 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 03:27 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 02:43 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Mutation of viruses is NATURALLY occurring. This is what Taq said. That is exactly what "Genetic Changes In B. Pertussis" means, dipshit.

Its not due to the vaccine, but that the vaccine no longer can fight against this particular mutation of the virus. Either you are too stupid to know the difference, or you are too dishonest to admit it.

Also, those fact checking skills of yours really need some improvement. Taq and I are anything but "pals"
What Taq said was:
(07-05-2014 09:02 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Mutation of pathogens (as with any other organism) occurs naturally and has not a fucking thing to do with vaccinations. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

When a pathogen mutates naturally and the vaccine no longer covers the mutation, it's relevant to continued use of the vaccine. In that sense it has "a fucking thing to do with vaccines", and Taq is wrong.


Hey, you LYING fucking idiot -- YOU claimed that viruses mutate BECAUSE of vaccines.


(06-05-2014 04:37 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  An unintended consequence of using our best science to the best of our collective knowledge. My message here has been that there are unintended consequences with higher and higher rates of vaccination too, including mutation of pathogens that cause disease in spite of vaccine-induced antibodies.


Quote:I did not say that vaccines cause the mutation.

YES, you MOST CERTAINLY DID, you fucking LIAR.


Quote:What I will say, however, is that pathogens do mutate, and if vaccines don't adapt, efficacy rates claimed by the CDC and manufacturers may well be meaningless in relation to the mutation.

That's precisely how it works with vaccination, dumb fuck.



Quote:I was not being the least bit serious when I said Taq was your pal. Taq eats his pals. Fact check that.

Taq is nothing but gracious with his pals.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-05-2014, 04:07 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 03:46 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 03:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  I would have given up at the point where the articles I was posting that I claimed to support my position were in fact debunking them. You have to be a special kind of thick to not relent after that type of repeated embarrassment.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed that the articles he cites actually disprove his talking points. But the worst thing is that he fails to recognize it....

At some point, after he educates himself, I would pay money to see his reaction. I imagine its like Bruce Willis in the Sixth Sense when he finally realizes he has been dead the whole time.

He really isn't giving us much reason to take him seriously. I'm sure it must be frustrating from his perspective, to know he isn't being taken seriously. To have mistaken us for a community that would have welcomed his ideas. To continually have his arguments shot down without pity.....but it's not nearly as frustrating as watching somebody without a clue what he's talking about (and it being painfully obvious to everybody but him that he hasn't a clue) continue to spout out bullshit as if he does.

Just how numb to the concepts of logic and reason do you have to be to not recognize that none of the "evidence" you are presenting not only doesn't support your position, but flat-out discredits it?

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07-05-2014, 04:13 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 03:44 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 03:27 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  I was not being the least bit serious when I said Taq was your pal. Taq eats his pals. Fact check that.

It just so happens that Taq ate me last night. His tongue...absolute magic. Drooling

Blush Aw, shucks....Hug

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-05-2014, 04:16 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 01:01 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  No one is saying that vaccines are perfect, you fucking idiot, and the fight against pandemics is dynamic and by its very nature it is always a game of catch-up. It's a hell of a lot more complicated than YOU think, asshole.
I've been here fighting against the notion that vaccines are perfect and have been the greatest factor in lower numbers of infectious disease deaths and disabilities in developed countries, saying that 'it's a hell of a lot more complicated than people think', and now that it turns out we agree on something, you call me an asshole.

You're a strange little man, Taq.
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07-05-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 04:13 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 03:44 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  It just so happens that Taq ate me last night. His tongue...absolute magic. Drooling

Blush Aw, shucks....Hug

Especially when you have the munchies. Haha.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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07-05-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 04:16 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 01:01 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  No one is saying that vaccines are perfect, you fucking idiot, and the fight against pandemics is dynamic and by its very nature it is always a game of catch-up. It's a hell of a lot more complicated than YOU think, asshole.
I've been here fighting against the notion that vaccines are "perfect" (I know, no one is saying that) for the job of making people immune to disease and have been the greatest factor in lower numbers of infectious disease deaths and disabilities in developed countries, saying that 'it's a hell of a lot more complicated than people think', and now that it turns out we agree on something, you call me an asshole.

You're a strange little man, Taq.
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07-05-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 04:16 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 01:01 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  No one is saying that vaccines are perfect, you fucking idiot, and the fight against pandemics is dynamic and by its very nature it is always a game of catch-up. It's a hell of a lot more complicated than YOU think, asshole.
I've been here fighting against the notion that vaccines are perfect and have been the greatest factor in lower numbers of infectious disease deaths and disabilities in developed countries, saying that 'it's a hell of a lot more complicated than people think', and now that it turns out we agree on something, you call me an asshole.

You're a strange little man, Taq.

No one disputed that vaccines aren't perfect. The entire medical and scientific community says as much.

You've been saying that they are so flawed that they do more harm than good. You lie. Badly.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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07-05-2014, 05:07 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 04:07 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 03:27 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  What Taq said was:

When a pathogen mutates naturally and the vaccine no longer covers the mutation, it's relevant to continued use of the vaccine. In that sense it has "a fucking thing to do with vaccines", and Taq is wrong.


Hey, you LYING fucking idiot -- YOU claimed that viruses mutate BECAUSE of vaccines.


(06-05-2014 04:37 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  An unintended consequence of using our best science to the best of our collective knowledge. My message here has been that there are unintended consequences with higher and higher rates of vaccination too, including mutation of pathogens that cause disease in spite of vaccine-induced antibodies.


Quote:I did not say that vaccines cause the mutation.

YES, you MOST CERTAINLY DID, you fucking LIAR.
Not a liar.

I was specifically referring to instances of pertussis that have occurred in spite of acellular pertussis vaccination (only 8% of the affected were unvaccinated), and the fact that related variants of the pathogenic strain have not been affected by the vaccine and have become causative for clinical whooping cough. I think of the pathogen as adapting around the vaccine, not because of it, which is why I concluded with the words, "mutation of pathogens that cause disease in spite of vaccine-induced antibodies." WHICH IS FUCKING TRUE.

The words "unintended consequences" do not mean "cause", any more than antibiotics "cause" antibiotic-resistant bacteria, and I meant the statement above precisely in the same vein as I would speak about antibiotics. Pathogens evolve, and our methods of fighting them don't catch every variant forever.

Again you ignore relevant facts to focus on 'being a grenade'. You're good for a laugh, but not much else.
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07-05-2014, 05:36 PM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(07-05-2014 04:20 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  No one disputed that vaccines aren't perfect. The entire medical and scientific community says as much.

You've been saying that they are so flawed that they do more harm than good. You lie. Badly.
People throughout this thread have been adamant that vaccines are the only thing keeping us from putting everyone around us at risk of massive outbreaks of disease. Here's a sample you might recognize:

(07-05-2014 05:59 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  When your decision affects everyone around you, then it's no longer about personal choice, is it?

Not vaccinating your kids affects EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. Around them.

I don't think, nor have I said, that the "entire medical and scientific community says" that vaccines are perfect. My complaint is that most of the medical and scientific community are resistant to criticism, overstate efficacy, and react with knee-jerk denial to claims of escalating autoimmune disease caused by vaccines, regardless of how many independent lab studies verify that finding.

Do vaccines do more harm than good? Some do, certainly. Has the experiment of comparison between a well-nourished unvaccinated population versus a well vaccinated third-world population in the face of a pathogen been done? No.

I suspect we would disagree in our predictions regarding the results.
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