Poll: What is your opinion of Vaccines/Vaccine Policy?
Vaccines saved the world. Bring them on.
I don't entirely trust big pharma, but vaccines have done more good than harm.
Some vaccines are effective and useful. Some are not.
Vaccines are of questionable value, like many pharmaceuticals, but I might want one if an epidemic hits.
Vaccines cause more health problems than they prevent. Parents and individuals should have the right to refuse any/all of them.
Vaccines are part of a population-reduction conspiracy on the part of the global elite and are intended to sterilize/kill as many as possible.
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Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
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28-04-2014, 08:52 AM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2014 08:56 AM by Magellan35.)
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
The overall tone among responses here makes very clear that minds are generally closed, which says more about human nature than about science or truth. I did not come here spouting conspiracy theory or Wakefield or Satan controlling the world. In fact, I call for industry reform and parental caution, as anyone who took time to read my blog might have noticed.

I am not the first atheist/evolutionist/father/science lover in the world to question vaccine safety, flawed pre-license trials, skewed marketing hyperbole, and large pharmaceutical companies and families/shareholders who own them running the schools, teaching hospitals, public institutions, and massive lobbying effort that push their particular agenda as the best means of maintaining health.

Some of the commenters here would like to pretend that a dissenting voice can be heard and would win a Nobel Prize if it could be proven that vaccines are dangerous, which is patently ridiculous under a paradigm in which so many powerful institutions are prepared to destroy dissent.

This thread is a case in point.

For some of you, the only proof that vaccines fall among compounds capable of inducing altered genetic expression - with resultant tissue and organ dysfunction - would be to see it happen with your own eyes in multiple labs. That is your right, though I have no idea how you function in a world in which pattern recognition is beneficial for survival. For others, even if it looks like there is clear enough evidence that vaccines are capable of causing tissue damage and disease states, fear of the pandemics of yesteryear cause you to feel that vaccines are the better of two evils (that is how I viewed things a few months ago). But maybe, just maybe, one or two people who read this thread will see that it is plausible that vaccines have a prominent role in "new epidemics" of autoimmune disorder, SIDS, and a number of cancers, and that statements regarding efficacy, risk/reward assessments, and herd immunity all come from sources with a vested interest in controlling public opinion and little interest in revealing problems that would affect market share or business as usual. Admitting, "We were wrong. We screwed up," is also absolutely unthinkable for the vast majority of public health workers, doctors, and scientists who have spent their lives supporting that system.

To the commenter who presumes to think he knows what I think about chemicals and vaccines: You don't. Humans shrug off and even incorporate into metabolism a number of compounds and elements that are deadly in high doses, so piss off with your one-assumption-fits-all bullshit.

I could do your work for you and cite the many studies demonstrating the chemical pathways by which vaccines lead to various disease states, but you all have Google. So why should I continue to bash my head against your immovable stance and dance to your requests for proof when you are as capable as I am of typing, "vaccine linked to MS" or "allergies and epigenetics" (See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22451193/, lol....) as I am.

If confirmation bias is your m.o., you will only hear those voices that support your view. If seeing the world as it really is seems preferable, you just might learn that vaccines - and other interventions that contravene billions of years of species arising in the midst of a soup of microorganisms - have unintended consequences that even the finest scientists cannot foresee.

It's time to wake up and see that we have traded one monster for another.
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28-04-2014, 09:13 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
Magelan,why don't you list every single paper you found on here?
I refuse to visit your site since you posted it in your very first message on this forum,wich seems (to me) you're doing this just for SEO

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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28-04-2014, 09:16 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(28-04-2014 09:13 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  Magelan,why don't you list every single paper you found on here?
I refuse to visit your site since you posted it in your very first message on this forum,wich seems (to me) you're doing this just for SEO

I'll do that.

SEO? It was just easier than pasting the whole damn essay here...
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28-04-2014, 09:19 AM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2014 09:22 AM by sporehux.)
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(28-04-2014 08:52 AM)Magellan35 Wrote:  I am not the first atheist/evolutionist/father/science lover in the world to question vaccine safety, flawed pre-license trials, skewed marketing hyperbole, and large pharmaceutical companies and families/shareholders who own them running the schools, teaching hospitals, public institutions, and massive lobbying effort that push their particular agenda as the best means of maintaining health.

Some of the commenters here would like to pretend that a dissenting voice can be heard and would win a Nobel Prize if it could be proven that vaccines are dangerous, which is patently ridiculous under a paradigm in which so many powerful institutions are prepared to destroy dissent.

This thread is a case in point.

For some of you, the only proof that vaccines fall among compounds capable of inducing altered genetic expression - with resultant tissue and organ dysfunction - would be to see it happen with your own eyes in multiple labs. That is your right, though I have no idea how you function in a world in which pattern recognition is beneficial for survival. For others, even if it looks like there is clear enough evidence that vaccines are capable of causing tissue damage and disease states, fear of the pandemics of yesteryear cause you to feel that vaccines are the better of two evils (that is how I viewed things a few months ago). But maybe, just maybe, one or two people who read this thread will see that it is plausible that vaccines have a prominent role in "new epidemics" of autoimmune disorder, SIDS, and a number of cancers, and that statements regarding efficacy, risk/reward assessments, and herd immunity all come from sources with a vested interest in controlling public opinion and little interest in revealing problems that would affect market share or business as usual. Admitting, "We were wrong. We screwed up," is also absolutely unthinkable for the vast majority of public health workers, doctors, and scientists who have spent their lives supporting that system.

To the commenter who presumes to think he knows what I think about chemicals and vaccines: You don't. Humans shrug off and even incorporate into metabolism a number of compounds and elements that are deadly in high doses, so piss off with your one-assumption-fits-all bullshit.

I could do your work for you and cite the many studies demonstrating the chemical pathways by which vaccines lead to various disease states, but you all have Google. So why should I continue to bash my head against your immovable stance and dance to your requests for proof when you are as capable as I am of typing, "vaccine linked to MS" or "allergies and epigenetics" (See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22451193/, lol....) as I am.

If confirmation bias is your m.o., you will only hear those voices that support your view. If seeing the world as it really is seems preferable, you just might learn that vaccines - and other interventions that contravene billions of years of species arising in the midst of a soup of microorganisms - have unintended consequences that even the finest scientists cannot foresee.

It's time to wake up and see that we have traded one monster for another.

Vaccines > plural :

Its a case by case basis, some are close to pointless and borderline placebo's, some may be promoted unethically for commercial reasons.
The overwhelming majority are the pinnacle of medical/scientific understanding that tangibly improves the quality and quantity of human life/dignity.

There is no secret cabal that administers them, they are open to criticism, as they should be, constantly and vigorously falsified.

Googling your claims results in many assertions with no citations, post a link that supports your conspiracy theory that lists its study sources.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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28-04-2014, 09:25 AM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2014 09:29 AM by Alex_Leonardo.)
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
Is Magellan....

MISS WANG?

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28-04-2014, 09:48 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(28-04-2014 09:25 AM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  Is Magellan....

MISS WANG?
You got me! Congratulations!

....No idea WTF you're talking about....

I have a full day of work ahead. I'll get those citations listed this evening.

Congratulations on being very religious and dogmatic, virtually all of you who have commented. You'll be quoting Scripture in no time.
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28-04-2014, 10:16 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(27-04-2014 07:48 PM)Magellan35 Wrote:  I am an atheist and a journalist. I also happen to feel that there are very few conspiracies that amount to anything but greedy capitalists doing whatever they think is necessary to maintain business as usual.

So when I say that vaccines are far more dangerous than we are being told, please understand that I very much wish it was otherwise. It was only after doing many months of research and reading hundreds of PubMed and PLoS studies that I had to admit that something is up with vaccines. Those who develop them know all too well that they cause autism, SIDS, diabetes, MS, arthritis, asthma, and any number of other syndromes and diseases, but there is no chance in hell of them ever admitting it or letting on that more people now die or suffer morbidity from vaccine-induced health problems than would die if we stopped vaccinating and encouraged better diet and exercise (which would not keep the medical industry massively profitable).

It's a conundrum for someone like me, who thinks the human race mostly sucks and needs to be reduced by half. I just don't happen to believe that shutting off gene transcription and protein synthesis by means of injected epigenetic reactants in vaccines is the best means of accomplishing that goal.

See all of my research here: http://magellan35.wordpress.com/

Piss off, troll.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-04-2014, 10:17 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
This is the xth time that you said you'll post your sources,and still no sources posted.... Is it really that hard to copy/paste?

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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28-04-2014, 10:18 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
(28-04-2014 09:48 AM)Magellan35 Wrote:  
(28-04-2014 09:25 AM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  Is Magellan....

MISS WANG?
You got me! Congratulations!

....No idea WTF you're talking about....

I have a full day of work ahead. I'll get those citations listed this evening.

Congratulations on being very religious and dogmatic, virtually all of you who have commented. You'll be quoting Scripture in no time.
Miss Meng was a banned account on here. She made several sock-puppets.
Sorry for offending you.

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28-04-2014, 11:00 AM
RE: Vaccine (Public Health) Policy Needs to Be Challenged
I reiterate, do you have any figures for the vaccination rates of the children of people who work creating and promoting these vaccines, or stand to profit for them?

Like I said, if these people are trading global health for profit then they surely wouldn't vaccinate their own children. That's your potential smoking gun, or a pretty strong piece of evidence that they do believe in what they are doing, depending on what the figures are.

Also, again, how does your theory account for countries like mine with nationalised health-care? It seems to rely on the Government looking the other way while pharmaceutical companies fleece the population. That means that over here the Government would have to look away while they themselves were fleeced doesn't it?

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