Vaccines related to autism?
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29-08-2013, 10:40 AM
RE: Vaccines related to autism?
(28-08-2013 09:01 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(27-08-2013 07:10 PM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  For the love of Flying Spaghetti Monster! Autism is a neurological disorder that people are born with, Mercury in a vaccine cannot cause it. Do the people even know anything about autism? You don't just get a shot and then it's all whoops I have autism! Humans are morons.

Sorry to use the term but this is hindsight.

People got a shot and whoops!... Thalidomide.

In the absence of a known cause, professionals and parents do the next best thing which is 'symptom matching'. Severe autism has similar symptoms to mercury poisoning.

It is a reasoned connection to make before there is any funding for proper diagnosis.

Parental anxiety and fear is natural not moronic.

But it has led to very poor risk assessment.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-08-2013, 10:58 AM
RE: Vaccines related to autism?
(29-08-2013 10:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 09:01 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Sorry to use the term but this is hindsight.

People got a shot and whoops!... Thalidomide.

In the absence of a known cause, professionals and parents do the next best thing which is 'symptom matching'. Severe autism has similar symptoms to mercury poisoning.

It is a reasoned connection to make before there is any funding for proper diagnosis.

Parental anxiety and fear is natural not moronic.

But it has led to very poor risk assessment.

In the 'best practice' manuals it is very well established that Rumour Management is much more efficient than Risk Management. Big Grin

Is this case, it is very similar to 'blaming-the-network' syndrome:

Once there was a network (LAN) failure reported.
The Incident was resolved quickly enough with a temporary fix (workaround) but because the Problem Manager was slow to respond in getting a team together, performing root cause analysis, announcing the actual root cause (not the LAN) and raising a change to get a permanent resolution, everyone is still blaming 'the network' for all failures with similar symptoms.

Classic, really.

Unfortunately, it takes multiple Incidents (or an epidemic) to justify raising the priority of the Investigation/Diagnosis activity either because the WHO take action or because the drug companies sniff profit in mass producing the 'workaround' palliative pills.

Ironically, the many misdiagnoses have been a boon to the smaller number of genuine cases.

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01-09-2013, 11:40 AM
RE: Vaccines related to autism?
The very best book I read on this subject is called The Panic Virus by Seth Mnookin. Read it!!

It's incredibly well researched and detailed. It traces the history of autism and vaccines and ties it into the emergence of the internet, baby boomers and many other things.

Buy it!

You will realize how much money.... many, many millions of dollars have been spent chasing down the wrong road with autism because so much wrong information has been recycled over and over again.

Scientists have long known that autism isn't caused by vaccines but the general population won't believe it. Part of the problem is that most scientists aren't good communicators and when they start to talk in "science language" people's eyes glaze over. But some of the biggest proponents of the link between autism and vaccines are like more like a Sunday Baptist preacher and really know how to get heartbroken parents all stirred up over the autism vaccine connection. They sell programs to the parents with special diets, special supplements and all manner of expensive extras which the guilt ridden parents feels the need to buy.

It's horrible. These guys should be thrown in jail.

Anyway, I encourage you to read The Panic Virus. Great book.

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02-09-2013, 08:43 AM
RE: Vaccines related to autism?
(27-08-2013 06:54 PM)sequoyah Wrote:  It seems that the mercury found in the vaccinations is what people are claiming to be the cause pf autism.

There was a type of mercury in a perservative known as Thiomersal that was used in vaccines and it has been used since the late 1930s without incident. In the 1990s there was a rising increase in autism diagnosis and people started to panic. Research was done in the late 90s and there was no link established between Thiomersal and autism. However, just to be safe, the decision was made in 1999 to replace Thiomersal with another perservative, and there has not been a vaccine produced in the US with the stuff since 2001. If that was what was causing autism, the number of indicents reported would have shown a signficant drop the last 12 years. That hasn't happened, though. You want proof that Thiomersal was not causing autism, that's proof. It was removed from the equation and there was no change.

Something is going on, though. I suspect part of the story is under diagnosis in the past and maybe over diagnosis today but I doubt that accounts for the entire increase. Maybe it does, but it doesn't feel like it (which, admittedly, is not evidence).

We eat so much processed foods, we put so many chemicals to fight pests and protect crops, we spew so much crap into the air, who knows what the combinations of all those things are doing to us during gestation. I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that human beings are having some kind of impact on human gestation that is leading to increases in things like autism, but I do think it's unreasonable to conclude, given all the evidence to the contrary, that vaccines are the problem.

These anti-vaccine people are dangerous and they are going to get someone killed. They may have already. There is an outbreak of measels in Texas at a church who preaches, among other wonderful messages, one of not getting vaccinated because god will provide.

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When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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02-09-2013, 08:55 AM
RE: Vaccines related to autism?
Yup. Despite my personal (and therefore emotional) involvement regarding Autism, the evidence that the vaccines where not a direct cause is strong.

Much more likely:
Hans Asperger researches cases of high functioning autism around 1945
Flouride added to drinking water in the 1940's
Conclusion...

Smile

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03-09-2013, 08:16 AM
RE: Vaccines related to autism?
It's a hoax.

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03-09-2013, 03:49 PM
RE: Vaccines related to autism?
Surprised this still going on but I will add my 2 cents.

As many others have said no credible studies have linked vaccines and their mercury preservative to Autism. There does seem to be a strong feeling as someone else said above that under reporting in the past and possibly over reporting now have lead to at least some of the sharp increase.

I would suggest that parents with an Autistic child, a very difficult and expensive problem, want to blame someone or something for their problem. Maybe even find someone to sue.

As someone also mentioned above, and a discussion I have had frequently with 2 close friends, our current exposure to chemicals in our food and water and the air we breath may not be a danger from the individual chemicals but the totality of the exposure could be a danger.

The whole vaccine and Autism thing reminds me of the worries about exposure to electo-magnetic radiation. Many years ago someone studied a cancer cluster in a community (I think in Colorado) where there were a number of high voltage transmission lines nearby. With little data other than that the person doing the study decided there had to be a causal relation ship. All subsequent studies determined there is no causal relationship between 60/50 hertz electo-magnetic radiation and cancer. Including one of powerhouse operators that showed only a very slight increase in male breast cancer. Having worked in powerhouses it is clear that their exposure (the hum is so loud that you can barely hear normal voices) is high.

What does happen is that if a device that emits electo-magnetic radiation, such as a cell phone tower or something else someone does not like is proposed, the fear mongers use this reputed problem as a reason to resist it.
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03-09-2013, 09:41 PM
RE: Vaccines related to autism?
(27-08-2013 06:54 PM)sequoyah Wrote:  It seems that the mercury found in the vaccinations is what people are claiming to be the cause pf autism.

You ingested more mercury by eating a tuna fish sandwich than you did having an MMR booster which contained the old thimerisol preservative.

The anti vaccers are woo pushing assholes.

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03-09-2013, 10:26 PM
Re: Vaccines related to autism?
I remember hearing 5 years ago on actually, Glenn Beck prior to his TV height, it was still a good laugh.

But he was saying there's a link of autism with kids watching the Little Einstein videos.. Swirling colors was ruining their minds. (although I think its been looked at that those videos are no more beneficial to development or mental stimulation than other cartoons despite peoples ideas.)

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-09-2013, 10:29 PM
RE: Vaccines related to autism?
(03-09-2013 03:49 PM)JAH Wrote:  ...
I would suggest that parents with an Autistic child, a very difficult and expensive problem, want to blame someone or something for their problem. Maybe even find someone to sue.
...

Not my experience. Nor what I picked up attending parent support groups.

But then, we don't have a litigation-culture in Britland.

My experience was that parents were looking for answers to help manage the situation which you rightly say is "very difficult and expensive" as the NHS at the time gave no support and the fucking bitch religious-fundie headmistress (deep breath and... relax) thought she knew more about what we were experiencing than we did because she had seen a lecture!

As I have said a number of times before on this subject...
Parents are looking to manage the incidents / symptoms i.e. the palliative stuff and relying on the science/medical community to diagnose the root cause(s) of the problem.
In the absence of good science there will be speculation but that is a side issue to helping your own child.

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