Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
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04-09-2013, 04:35 PM
RE: Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
(04-09-2013 04:23 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(04-09-2013 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  Best. Nonsense. Ever. Thumbsup

Not. Even. Close.

You make a mimsy argument. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-09-2013, 04:42 PM
RE: Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
(04-09-2013 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  Best. Nonsense. Ever. Thumbsup

Ever?

I propose the debate of the century. absols vs Gene Ray vs Mark Dreher.

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04-09-2013, 06:03 PM
RE: Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
(03-09-2013 12:48 AM)agnosticfaith Wrote:  In curious as to what others think of this particular age old question. I was visiting a site where you are free to ask a physicist any question you wish regarding physics and he will answer. He has guidelines obviously. No homework questions, it can't involve cosmology and the like. And he won't answer qustions that he considers off the wall. This is all well and good but what struck me was the wall of fame of off the wall questions. I don't object beyond a point. Its his site and its his right to do as he wishes. Not to mention that its an incredible resource for scientific information with the added bonus of an expert who gives quick and understandable answers. But it got me wondering again. Are all viewpoints equally valid. If so why. If not why not. Surely we are all entitled to our opinion but does that make it valid. Which brings me to the point. Are atheism and theism equally valid viewpoints and does the key component of atheism, namely the nonexistence of a higher power, contradict itself. It being essentially faith in nonexistence. Which would arguably be more difficult to prove in any case as proving a negative is nearly impossible in some cases. Anyway. My point is. Are all beliefs valid. If so why if not why not.
Proposition: All beliefs are valid.
Test: I have a belief that not all beliefs are valid.
Conclusion: If all beliefs are valid, then even mine is valid. Which is impossible.
Therefore, not all beliefs are valid.

Basic philosophy.
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05-09-2013, 12:28 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2013 12:42 AM by absols.)
RE: Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
(04-09-2013 04:00 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  
(04-09-2013 02:41 PM)absols Wrote:  the problem is what u dont seem to know how a word is true, any word

[SNIP]

theism is pointing a source of objective so outside of it so never it nor inn
and atheism is pointing individuals freedom and not things so also dont admit the existence of absolute objectivity, while clearly shout being opposed to the word belief so mean its own presence fact over anything n everything

I know others have already told you this, but I figured I'd join in in hopes that it will get through, but....

Your posts do not communicate anything, and therefore are a waste of your time and ours.

I get the feeling that you believe you have something important to communicate, but you are failing miserably.

Whether it is because English is your 2nd language, or you have some other issue making your thoughts into understandable language, you are not doing anyone any good here.

That's the last I'll mention it, but until your posts are understandable, they are of no use.

it is ur feelings that are a waste of everything time, whatever u mean or dont by enjoying urself pretense of being

making a post to someone post that never mentionned u, so cant even pretend being a reply to, while clearly to deny its positive quality of being objectively someone's post, say all the negative will u r as a constant way of being, by actually ruining all posts reality and subjects freedom behind any self expression that only matter being the present fact

u cant talk to anyone while u dont recognize his positive existence and clearly mean to hit his words as non existing too, it is impossible way of means

which demonstrate the truth being the only thing existing even of what never exist like u

ur end as negative living is finished u r clearly alone that self objectively u do
u have no right to pretend being anything and not even nonbeing that became a definitive fact about u forever

just to clean all the dirt u force on truth while being alone, i clarify this one thing

only negative livings mean others bc they need anything and anyother sense to pretend being themselves

and true beings cant see but objective existence to say being else so never mean anyone else nor care about others

u r so dirty that u invent the weakness of valuable beings to abuse without facing them while meaning clearly evil superiority to rights and true existence

u only reveal urself and that is also the truth, u r finished alone clearly too
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05-09-2013, 12:41 AM
RE: Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
^^^ more fodder for Chas.

There seems to be an endless supply.

Thumbsup

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05-09-2013, 12:55 AM
RE: Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
(04-09-2013 06:03 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Proposition: All beliefs are valid.
Test: I have a belief that not all beliefs are valid.
Conclusion: If all beliefs are valid, then even mine is valid. Which is impossible.
Therefore, not all beliefs are valid.

Basic philosophy.

u jumped too fast for subjective conclusion, which demonstrate the answer
the subjective belief can b invented so a lie then not about real thing

the belief is always objective so valid, only a subjective lie would jump to point an abstraction that it doesnt deal with it effectively as being present fact
like the way u concluded, it was fully subjective

yes all beliefs are valid then urs saying that not all beliefs are valid is valid too

it is objective from u where u know that some beliefs are lies of subjects inventions

but any point in thought exist really u dont create anything of ur mind, u just realize objective things, and present subject is free which mean all u only not anything at all so ur presence according to ur instants presence empty awareness

beliefs are always to objective else existence by being else to
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05-09-2013, 01:06 AM
RE: Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
^^^ Dammit!

Some of that made sense ... at the beginning ... then it went salad.

I'm having flashbacks to when I started reading HoC for the first time.

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05-09-2013, 03:16 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2013 03:22 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
(05-09-2013 12:55 AM)absols Wrote:  u jumped too fast for subjective conclusion, which demonstrate the answer
the subjective belief can b invented so a lie then not about real thing

the belief is always objective so valid, only a subjective lie would jump to point an abstraction that it doesnt deal with it effectively as being present fact
like the way u concluded, it was fully subjective
it is objective from u where u know that some beliefs are lies of subjects inventions
We do NOT know which beliefs are or aren't subjective or objective, lie or truth. We don't even have to know that. You propose a logical all-encompassing category or set and I proved that it set can contain something it can not possibly contain, therefore it's contradictory. We are talking in terms of possibilities, not concrete beliefs which might be false or true. False or true exists regardless if subjective or objective.

(05-09-2013 12:55 AM)absols Wrote:  yes all beliefs are valid then urs saying that not all beliefs are valid is valid too
I see what you mean, but you make a mistake in the logical principle of contradiction. A belief can not be at the same time itself and then its negation. It can not be A and anti-A at the same time. Principle of contradiction is truly absolute and objective, according to Aristotle.

Indirect proof:
Thesis: The principle of contradiction is valid.
Antithesis: The principle of contradiction is invalid.
Which one is true? We have two contradictory positions. What if the antithesis was true? Let's say you're right. What happens? Well, then the thesis will be false, of course! But if something can be false, then you already assume the principle of contradiction when trying to disprove the principle of contradiction. If the principle of contradiction was false, then you would have to agree with everything I say and believe it, for example "Your mother is so fat, that when she walked in front of a TV, I missed 3 parts of the serial!"
You could not utter a sentence "No, my mother is not fat!" the sentence would have to say, "My mother = my mother, not fat = not fat". Thinking and expressing a contradiction would be impossible.

Quote:but any point in thought exist really u dont create anything of ur mind, u just realize objective things, and present subject is free which mean all u only not anything at all so ur presence according to ur instants presence empty awareness

beliefs are always to objective else existence by being else to
Ah, you mean the world of Platonic forms. I see what you mean. No, the mind is capable of generating plentiful nonsense. Belief is not really thinking. It is generating emotional thoughtforms of attachment to each other. You can feel attachment to anything, even to things which don't really exist, like Batman or Superman. You can write down things that don't really exist, for example I really really believe in GsnarfOwidgetD and I'll cut off your head if you don't.

In order to think truly objective thoughts, to be mentally in contact with the reality, you have to accept the principle of contradiction and other logical principles, which will lead you to TRUE, NECESSARY, OBJECTIVE AND GENERAL knowledge about reality. There will be no attachment, only necessity... And, you have to study this stuff. I attended a class of a renown philosopher at a very, very expensive private college.

Only good thinkers can do that. I know my classmate had really a hard time with it, such a salt of earth guy. Very good memory and will to memorize, but philosophy was not his favorite subject. He took his thoughts for too much for granted.
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05-09-2013, 04:23 AM
RE: Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
(05-09-2013 03:16 AM)Luminon Wrote:  We do NOT know which beliefs are or aren't subjective or objective, lie or truth. We don't even have to know that. You propose a logical all-encompassing category or set and I proved that it set can contain something it can not possibly contain, therefore it's contradictory. We are talking in terms of possibilities, not concrete beliefs which might be false or true. False or true exists regardless if subjective or objective.

you make a mistake in the logical principle of contradiction. A belief can not be at the same time itself and then its negation. It can not be A and anti-A at the same time. Principle of contradiction is truly absolute and objective, according to Aristotle.

.

NO ur way of thinking is totally wrong, obviously u cant see neutrally while insisting to believe that all is one perspective

a contradiction of a thing never exist, when only absolute objective positive constant free fact is a thing

to u a belief can b subjective, while no when any is only absolutely so truly existing then objective for sure, outside of u u must point it clearly there present too

that is why ur mind creations is ur creation illusions, for urself wills which is nothing to talk about really

but any point in mind belong to smthg objectively existing that urself existence has no constant relation to, urself true existence is about urself freedom alone

ur insistence to deny lies possibilities is clearly the evil u r who refuse to admit truth existence

of course when only what is true exist then lies can b a way in nonexistence realms but must b hunted down definitely

like all what u said there were lies, u dont mean what u wrote u just meant to hit any sense of truth in the obvious words i made

this is subjective of u since conscious free, while u think that u cant b caught as being a liar, but of course truth isolate any freedom so it is shown clearly in what it is doing alone

while ur means are talking nonsense hahi arguments debates by fools so nothing to objective existence stable real fact constant
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05-09-2013, 04:36 AM
RE: Validity of belief (no matter what it is)
(04-09-2013 06:03 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 12:48 AM)agnosticfaith Wrote:  In curious as to what others think of this particular age old question. I was visiting a site where you are free to ask a physicist any question you wish regarding physics and he will answer. He has guidelines obviously. No homework questions, it can't involve cosmology and the like. And he won't answer qustions that he considers off the wall. This is all well and good but what struck me was the wall of fame of off the wall questions. I don't object beyond a point. Its his site and its his right to do as he wishes. Not to mention that its an incredible resource for scientific information with the added bonus of an expert who gives quick and understandable answers. But it got me wondering again. Are all viewpoints equally valid. If so why. If not why not. Surely we are all entitled to our opinion but does that make it valid. Which brings me to the point. Are atheism and theism equally valid viewpoints and does the key component of atheism, namely the nonexistence of a higher power, contradict itself. It being essentially faith in nonexistence. Which would arguably be more difficult to prove in any case as proving a negative is nearly impossible in some cases. Anyway. My point is. Are all beliefs valid. If so why if not why not.
Proposition: All beliefs are valid.
Test: I have a belief that not all beliefs are valid.
Conclusion: If all beliefs are valid, then even mine is valid. Which is impossible.
Therefore, not all beliefs are valid.

Basic philosophy.

Well done. RAA for the win! Thumbsup

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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