Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
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06-05-2015, 12:28 PM
RE: Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
(06-05-2015 08:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Which values though? The racist values of the enlightenment, that saw blacks as inferior to whites? The values captured in the Reign of Terror, that led to priests heads being mounted on sticks?

Do you know what the Reign of Terror was a consequence of? Why it happened? Racism isn't a value of the enlightenment.

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06-05-2015, 01:01 PM
RE: Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
(06-05-2015 12:28 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Racism isn't a value of the enlightenment.

Sure, if your cherry pick the enlightenment, perhaps.

“I am apt to suspect the Negroes, and in general all other species of men to be naturally inferior to the whites. There never was any civilized nation of any other complection than white, nor even any individual eminent in action or speculation.”
-David Hume

" “this fellow was quite black from head to toe, a clear proof that what he said was stupid.”- Kant

"The Negro race is a species of men different from ours as the breed of spaniels is from that of greyhounds. The mucous membrane, or network, which Nature has spread between the muscles and the skin, is white in us and black or copper-colored in them."

It is a serious question among them whether the Africans are descended from monkeys or whether the monkeys come from them. Our wise men have said that man was created in the image of God. Now here is a lovely image of the Divine Maker: a flat and black nose with little or hardly any intelligence. A time will doubtless come when these animals will know how to cultivate the land well, beautify their houses and gardens, and know the paths of the stars: one needs time for everything"
-Voltaire

" "At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races." -Darwin

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ived/?_r=0
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06-05-2015, 01:07 PM
RE: Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
(06-05-2015 01:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 12:28 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Racism isn't a value of the enlightenment.

Sure, if your cherry pick the enlightenment, perhaps.

“I am apt to suspect the Negroes, and in general all other species of men to be naturally inferior to the whites. There never was any civilized nation of any other complection than white, nor even any individual eminent in action or speculation.”
-David Hume

" “this fellow was quite black from head to toe, a clear proof that what he said was stupid.”- Kant

"The Negro race is a species of men different from ours as the breed of spaniels is from that of greyhounds. The mucous membrane, or network, which Nature has spread between the muscles and the skin, is white in us and black or copper-colored in them."

It is a serious question among them whether the Africans are descended from monkeys or whether the monkeys come from them. Our wise men have said that man was created in the image of God. Now here is a lovely image of the Divine Maker: a flat and black nose with little or hardly any intelligence. A time will doubtless come when these animals will know how to cultivate the land well, beautify their houses and gardens, and know the paths of the stars: one needs time for everything"
-Voltaire

" "At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races." -Darwin

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ived/?_r=0

Depends on what you mean by "value of the enlightenment"

is it values that AROSE in the enlightenment, then no, racism isn't that as it was there for centuries in that same context.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-05-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
(06-05-2015 01:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 12:28 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Racism isn't a value of the enlightenment.

Sure, if your cherry pick the enlightenment, perhaps.

“I am apt to suspect the Negroes, and in general all other species of men to be naturally inferior to the whites. There never was any civilized nation of any other complection than white, nor even any individual eminent in action or speculation.”
-David Hume

" “this fellow was quite black from head to toe, a clear proof that what he said was stupid.”- Kant

"The Negro race is a species of men different from ours as the breed of spaniels is from that of greyhounds. The mucous membrane, or network, which Nature has spread between the muscles and the skin, is white in us and black or copper-colored in them."

It is a serious question among them whether the Africans are descended from monkeys or whether the monkeys come from them. Our wise men have said that man was created in the image of God. Now here is a lovely image of the Divine Maker: a flat and black nose with little or hardly any intelligence. A time will doubtless come when these animals will know how to cultivate the land well, beautify their houses and gardens, and know the paths of the stars: one needs time for everything"
-Voltaire

" "At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races." -Darwin

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ived/?_r=0

Those views were not revolutionary, they were not progressive enlightenment values. They existed before, during and after. Simple as that.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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06-05-2015, 11:57 PM
RE: Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
(06-05-2015 02:18 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Those views were not revolutionary, they were not progressive enlightenment values. They existed before, during and after. Simple as that.

Your missing Tommy's point. He must denigrate the entire enlightenment in order to throw doubt on the value of secularism which also arose during the enlightenment.

Nice obfuscation there Tommy Thumbsup

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-05-2015, 05:51 AM
RE: Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
(06-05-2015 11:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 02:18 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Those views were not revolutionary, they were not progressive enlightenment values. They existed before, during and after. Simple as that.

Your missing Tommy's point. He must denigrate the entire enlightenment in order to throw doubt on the value of secularism which also arose during the enlightenment.

Nice obfuscation there Tommy Thumbsup

Hahahahaha pat on the head

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07-05-2015, 05:58 AM
RE: Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
(06-05-2015 01:07 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  is it values that AROSE in the enlightenment, then no, racism isn't that as it was there for centuries in that same context.

If this is the case, than pretty much all supposed enlightenment values preceded the enlightenment.
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07-05-2015, 06:04 AM
RE: Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
(06-05-2015 11:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  doubt on the value of secularism which also arose during the enlightenment.

You mean the separation of Church and State? You could perhaps thank the protestant reformation for that, Martin Luther's "two governments" views.
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07-05-2015, 06:08 AM
RE: Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
(06-05-2015 11:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  Your missing Tommy's point. He must denigrate the entire enlightenment in order to throw doubt on the value of secularism which also arose during the enlightenment.

Nice obfuscation there Tommy Thumbsup

The norm is to whitewash the enlightenment, the way christians might whitewash christian history. Discard all the nasty bits, as if it wasn't even there, and imagine it in a benign and cuddly form.
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07-05-2015, 06:45 AM
RE: Values of the enlightenment diminishing?
(07-05-2015 05:58 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-05-2015 01:07 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  is it values that AROSE in the enlightenment, then no, racism isn't that as it was there for centuries in that same context.

If this is the case, than pretty much all supposed enlightenment values preceded the enlightenment.

Well, you're right. That doesn't do anything for your argument now, does it? Because you're failing to understand what the enlightenment was. It was a revolutionary movement of values to the forefront of society, overcoming oppressive religion. Not an invention of them.

Racism was around before, during and after like I've said. Doesn't mean it was an enlightenment value. Voltaire loved Duck L'orange, doesn't fucking mean his favorite dish was a value of the enlightenment.

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