Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
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28-05-2012, 02:32 PM
Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
Now you'd think after all the recent revelations regarding the RCC's immoral ,corrupt ,criminal failures over the safeguarding of children ,that the hierarchy would take any opportunity to at least appear to be addressing the problem. Wouldn't you ?
NO .... they're "coming on in the same old fashion".
Check this out...
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/w...63815.html
"The Italian Bishop’s Conference (CIE) has issued guidelines on child protection that inform its bishops that they are ‘not obliged to report illicit facts’ of child abuse to the police.
The new guidelines were released recently after the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith advised every Bishop Conference to create a document covering Child Protection if they did not already have one."
I do wish I could say that this came as a surprise or a shock ... but its almost predictable these days.

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
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28-05-2012, 02:53 PM
RE: Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
The Catholic church hierarchy is as concerned with the children of that church as they are in giving away all the money they have to the poor (ie. not very).

They will not change and any parent that places their children in reach of these pathetic pieces of filth need to have their head examined.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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28-05-2012, 04:30 PM
RE: Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
what a bunch of fucking cunts.

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28-05-2012, 05:52 PM
RE: Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
I could get behind the Catholics not reporting paedophiles to police but only if they reported them to psychotic vigilante groups instead.

I've always thought prison was an inadequate punishment for child molesters (unless they stay behind bars until their death and are brutally bummed in the showers every day by guys with massive cocks, then it becomes eerily appropriate), I'm sure vigilantes could do a far better job. I also think it should be a criminal offence equal to child molestation to know and not report it, after all I imagine most paedophiles don't stop until they are caught. That means anyone who knows and does nothing is effectively condemning any subsequent victims.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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28-05-2012, 08:09 PM
RE: Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
Does anyone have a link to the actual document? The relevant quote from the article is “Under Italian law, the bishop, given that he holds no public office nor is he a public servant, is not obliged to report illicit facts of the type covered by this document to the relevant state judicial authorities."

I gather that this is a true statement, and one that should be present in guidelines to bishops that describe the legal, ethical, and policy considerations with relation to this issue. The question is - what else does it say? What does it say about the policy of the church in regards to the question of reporting? If this is all it says, then let rip. If there is more to be said then I would prefer to see it before passing judgement.

All I see in my quick google search is an echo chamber of this article. I don't see the source document.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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29-05-2012, 01:49 PM
RE: Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
Here you go Hafnof ....


http://www.chiesacattolica.it/chiesa_cat...guida.html

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
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29-05-2012, 03:00 PM
RE: Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
Unfortunately not at all surprising.

Not that I want religious groups like the catholics to continue in any regard, but man it sure seems like they don't want to either. I'm starting to think that groups like this are more responsible for the disbelief in evolution than anything else. I mean they just won't adapt to the times will they?

I can't wait until they appear in the Darwin awards books.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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29-05-2012, 06:53 PM
RE: Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
Thanks watchman. I'll be quoting from google translate as I don't speak italian. Here is pretty much the meat of the document as I read it:

"Ordinaries are given the first stage of the criminal process, applying the instructions of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which is in any case, the court of second instance. It is therefore necessary that in each diocese, the diocesan Tribunal constituted, made, as regards the present case, by a panel of three judges (cf. can., 1425, § 1, 2 ° CIC), the promoter of justice and notary. Unless dispensation of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, all subjects indicated must be priests with doctoral degrees in canon law.
In the event that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has to do extra-judicial decree (7), the bishop should nevertheless ensure full so the cleric accused the fundamental right of defense (8).
The canonical measures applied against a cleric guilty of sexual abuse of a minor are generally of two types: 1) measures which restrict the public ministry in full or at least excluding contact with children. These measures may be accompanied by a penal precept; 2) ecclesiastical penalties, including the most serious is dismissal from the clerical state.
The Perpetual penalties can not be imposed or declared by court decree (c. 1342, § 2 CIC). To this end, the bishop will still have to apply to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which can make use of the power to refer the decision to the Supreme Pontiff, according to the provision of art. 21, § 2, n. 2 of the Norms of delictis.
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith also has the power to bring directly before the Holy Father for the most serious cases dismissal ex officio.
It is appropriate that a case remains in the secret records of the Curia (cf. cann. 489, 490, and 1719 § 1 CIC).
At any time of the disciplinary or criminal procedures will be provided to the clerk a proper sustenance, and the ability to exercise their fundamental right to defense.
The cleric convicted will implement a challenging course of accountability and serious renewal of his life, including adequate therapeutic-rehabilitative path and readiness to conduct reparative."

So I think this means that the cleric will be tried, but only within the church - that they will not be handed over to outside authorities. A convicted cleric might be ejected from the clergy, but otherwise will be "treated" within the church.

Hrrmm... if I read the substantive rules at the bottom of the document right - child molestation is considered a crime so serious that it carries the same level of punishment as someone who tries to ordain a woman as priest. Amazing.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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29-05-2012, 08:15 PM
RE: Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
(29-05-2012 06:53 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Thanks watchman. I'll be quoting from google translate as I don't speak italian. Here is pretty much the meat of the document as I read it:

"Ordinaries are given the first stage of the criminal process, applying the instructions of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which is in any case, the court of second instance. It is therefore necessary that in each diocese, the diocesan Tribunal constituted, made, as regards the present case, by a panel of three judges (cf. can., 1425, § 1, 2 ° CIC), the promoter of justice and notary. Unless dispensation of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, all subjects indicated must be priests with doctoral degrees in canon law.
In the event that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has to do extra-judicial decree (7), the bishop should nevertheless ensure full so the cleric accused the fundamental right of defense (8).
The canonical measures applied against a cleric guilty of sexual abuse of a minor are generally of two types: 1) measures which restrict the public ministry in full or at least excluding contact with children. These measures may be accompanied by a penal precept; 2) ecclesiastical penalties, including the most serious is dismissal from the clerical state.
The Perpetual penalties can not be imposed or declared by court decree (c. 1342, § 2 CIC). To this end, the bishop will still have to apply to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which can make use of the power to refer the decision to the Supreme Pontiff, according to the provision of art. 21, § 2, n. 2 of the Norms of delictis.
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith also has the power to bring directly before the Holy Father for the most serious cases dismissal ex officio.
It is appropriate that a case remains in the secret records of the Curia (cf. cann. 489, 490, and 1719 § 1 CIC).
At any time of the disciplinary or criminal procedures will be provided to the clerk a proper sustenance, and the ability to exercise their fundamental right to defense.
The cleric convicted will implement a challenging course of accountability and serious renewal of his life, including adequate therapeutic-rehabilitative path and readiness to conduct reparative."

So I think this means that the cleric will be tried, but only within the church - that they will not be handed over to outside authorities. A convicted cleric might be ejected from the clergy, but otherwise will be "treated" within the church.

Hrrmm... if I read the substantive rules at the bottom of the document right - child molestation is considered a crime so serious that it carries the same level of punishment as someone who tries to ordain a woman as priest. Amazing.

I.o.w. they consider themselves to be if not above then at least
'beside' civilian law*, but definitely not within it and not bound by
laws and rules like any other citizen. If that's not elitism, what is?

* IRL of course plainly outside the law. So let's treat 'm as such. Let's try the outlaws in open court for organized crime! And deport 'm to Tristan da Cunha for life.
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30-05-2012, 06:32 AM
RE: Vatican does it ....... AGAIN !
I wonder whether if when the Vatican says they should be outside the law and able to deal with such matters themselves they would also apply that the other way.

If a church was broken into or a priest murdered would they expect law enforcement to not investigate so they could deal out their own spiritual punishments?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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