Vegan/vegetarianism
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31-07-2016, 05:48 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(31-07-2016 05:26 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(31-07-2016 04:50 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Not sure if you are aware of this but other animals do not have the higher critical thinking skills we do.

Also, where did I ever even mention Bambi or Finding Nemo? Not once did I mention Walt Disney films or Cartoons or mention the word Documentaries. Now you are just acting like a petty angry little kid who is upset that someone told em that tearing a baby pig from its mommy the moment it is born and then proceed to force feed it beating it, kick it, and cause it unimaginable pain for six to eight weeks all in order so it can wind up on your plate is wrong.

Drinking Beverage
"tearing a baby pig from it's mommy"

ohhh jesusmotherfuckingweepingchrist...................

Look up "anthropomorphism" ----

or simply look in a mirror......

.....

And come back when you know something about animals....

Telling someone to look up a word that has nothing to do with the topic is not an argument. The only person here who does not know anything about animals is you since you are clearly trying to suggest that human beings are not animals.

Facepalm


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31-07-2016, 05:56 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
Babies being ripped away from their mommies? When I was a kid of 5 to 15 years old we lived near to the stock yards in South St Paul Minnesota. The law at that time said that they could not kill a mother if she had a baby suckling, Many cows and sheep and goats were sold for slaughter when they were pregnant and many baby calves, lambs and baby goats were born between the time a mother arrove at the stock yards and when the animal was to be killed, so they had baby animals to give away for free. Every spring my dad brought home a baby calf or lamb for free, we'd raise the animal and in the fall, usually Halloween week, we'd haul it off to be butchered and leave a portion of the meat to the butcher and the rest would come home and we'd have what we knew was well raised meat. It kept us in steaks and burgers until about Xmas time if I remember right.
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31-07-2016, 06:39 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(31-07-2016 05:43 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(31-07-2016 05:30 PM)Dom Wrote:  Me, I don't touch processed foods. I grow my own as much as possible, and buy from farmers what I can't grow. Things that won't grow locally I will buy at the supermarket - fresh.

Yes, I slip and buy processed stuff from time to time, but I don't care for the additives. I want to eat what my body has evolved to eat, no more, no less.

Right, Got you covered. We've had a couple of food threads here and I have always held that food with labels isn't really food at all. To get these phony meats one has to process the shit until it has no resemblance to what it started out as. There was a TV ad for yogurt once that had a couple of people stumbling over the labels on various yogurts. The conclusion was made that one shouldn't eat anything that had 3 or more ingredients that one couldn't even pronounce. No one has ever picked an apple off a tree with a label on it, nor pulled a carrot nor butchered a chicken to find a label down among the feathers. The government forcing companies to put labels on nonfoods that started out as food, and then in one manner or other was defoodized is a good idea to protect people. But if one only eats real food instead of labelled food one will live a lot better. I live in the DOminican Republic and biy a good share of my food from pick up trucks that come around with the fruits and veggies under a umbrella in the back of the truck. Scoop rice out of a 100 pound bag and drop it on the scale and get it for 10% less than the prebagged stuff in the stores. Contrary to what many people try to pretend rice is white when it comes in from the field. I used to read that white rice was not real etc, but even before I arrove here I remember asking more than one lecturer what color he thought rice started out as if it wasn't white.

Rice is actually comes in many colors, white being one of them. Where I grew up we bought veggies and fruit from pickup trucks that came around also.

When I was young I ate all kinds of crap but now I value my health too much to mess with what I allow in my body.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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31-07-2016, 07:06 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
Whilst I agree and can see the point of view that morally it would be nice to reduce suffering, id like to ask a few thing's.

1: Could it be acceptable for vegans/vegetarians to eat meat if they knew that the animal had lived a good life and would be slaughtered "peacefully"? Or would you prefer them to live to old age and die of natural causes?

2: If animals know empathy, that they mourn the loss offspring and pack members, then how are we any different to them? We are also animals, but we are just more advanced socially. Remove societies structure and we are back into the food chain.

3: What good does holding the moral ground of reducing suffering bring to a universe that simply does not care? In a bio system where animals suffer and die every single day and have done for millions of years? Is it only good for the position of the individual, to serve their personal moral checklist, or is there some arguement about the betterment of everything through these "kind" actions?

4: If large animals that show intelligence and consciousness (elephants, dolphins, primates etc) are to be protected because they are to some degree "self aware", then would it be permissable to eat lesser creatures with less awareness? Which would mean that people may not actually be "pro life" but rather "pro reduce suffering". Just because a plant or an insect does not show empathy or awareness, it is still a living organism that we all consume. We dont concern ourselves of its wellbeing, just like our ancestors did not concern themselves of animals wellbeing. They were just something to consume to survive.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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31-07-2016, 08:03 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(31-07-2016 05:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  replies in bold.
(31-07-2016 11:20 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  reply in red

Yes, they do. Everyone has the right to his or her own person. Everyone means everyone.

Your questions utterly miss the point.
The victims' rights have been violated in your examples, rendering your questions devoid of applicability.

Do you think people have inalienable (or natural) rights?
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31-07-2016, 09:00 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(31-07-2016 08:03 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(31-07-2016 05:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  replies in bold.

Your questions utterly miss the point.
The victims' rights have been violated in your examples, rendering your questions devoid of applicability.

Do you think people have inalienable (or natural) rights?

People have the right to their own person and the right to enforce that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-07-2016, 09:11 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(31-07-2016 09:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-07-2016 08:03 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Do you think people have inalienable (or natural) rights?

People have the right to their own person and the right to enforce that.

Otherwise it's called slavery.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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31-07-2016, 09:32 PM (This post was last modified: 31-07-2016 11:42 PM by Lucipurr.)
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
I absolutely love meat, and it's what I pretty much live on these days. Being a vegetarian or a vegan isn't really for me but good luck to anyone who wants to be one.

It's those who try and force their life choices on others I dislike.
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01-08-2016, 04:36 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(31-07-2016 09:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-07-2016 08:03 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Do you think people have inalienable (or natural) rights?

People have the right to their own person and the right to enforce that.

I'm going to ask this really slowly.

DO YOU THINK PEOPLE HAVE INALIENABLE (OR NATURAL) RIGHTS?

The best way to answer a question like this is to start with either a yes or a no, and then explain if you feel it is necessary. I know you can do this Chas, don't let me down! Rolleyes
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01-08-2016, 05:35 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
People (not animals) have whatever rights they're able to secure for themselves, or are given by the grace of others......

In the USA -- there are NO inalienable rights......

ALL rights -- including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness may be adjudicated away, by a court of law....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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