Vegan/vegetarianism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-08-2016, 12:18 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 11:59 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  It comes down to this ---

If you want to live at the bottom of the food chain - that's your right....

I don't underestimate the bottom of the food chain.




#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2016, 12:33 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2016 12:36 PM by Chas.)
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 08:45 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Chas, answer me this.

When I kill a deer, am I violating its rights? Why/why not?

What if somebody kills a chimpanzee, would they be violating its rights?

In the future, for all we know it might be possible to create a human-chimpanzee hybrid using some kind of gene splicing. If one was created, would it have the same rights as a human?

You're a nitwit. We're talking about people, not deer.

I don't give a fuck about your absurd hypotheticals.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2016, 12:33 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 08:39 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 07:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  "My statement is pragmatic and does not depend on the answer"

"My statement is false and does not depend on the answer"

Fixed it.

Fuck off. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2016, 12:56 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2016 01:22 PM by SYZ.)
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(31-07-2016 10:30 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  I do not believe it should be "illegal", I do believe that it is morally wrong to torture animals like we do to our livestock.
I'm uncertain as to where you reside, but in Australia we have very specific laws banning the "torture" of animals—including livestock. Here we have financial penalties against an individual of up to $235,000 and/or up to 7 years imprisonment. A corporation can be fined $1.178 million. [QLD Animal Care and Protection Act 2001]

Quote:Since we have the ability to create fake meat that tastes almost the same as the real thing and has the same nutritional value that we have a moral obligation to move away from farming animals.
I'm assuming you're talking about vegetable or soy protein substitutes? In actuality, none of these have the flavour or the texture of real meat, and some lack the high protein content of red meat. As humans are natural omnivores—like dogs, bears, pigs, chimpanzees, rats, chickens etc—there is no moral "obligation" for us to stop killing animals for food.


Quote:The consumption of meat causes a lot of health problems and fake meat is a lot more healthy anyway.
Lots? Citation please.

Typical ingredient list for fake meat: Textured Soy Protein Concentrate, Soy Protein Isolate (SPI), Corn Oil, Wheat Gluten, Potato Starch, Methylcellulose, Olive Oil, Sodium Chloride, Cultured Whey, Hydrolyzed Protein, Hydrolyzed Wheat Gluten, Spices, Caramel Colour, Brown Sugar, Dextrose, Raw Sugar, Autolysed Yeast Extract, Natural Flavour, Disodium Inosinate, Disodium Guanylate, Garlic Powder, Gum Arabic, Sugar, Onion Powder. According to the USDA, more than 90% of the soybeans grown in the US are genetically modified, so most SPI comes from altered beans. This means that it's chemically modified, processed, and filled with pesticides such as residual glyphosate.

I dunno about you, but I'd prefer 200g of unadulterated, fat-trimmed red meat to this processed chemical sludge.

Quote: [...] without having to rip it away from its mother after birth and having it force fed and tortured its whole six week life span.
Again, in Australia, this is not how it works. Cattle, sheep, pigs etc are not "force fed", nor are they "tortured". And they live a lot longer than six weeks to reach a mature and profitable eating weight. It's obvious you don't live in a farming region, but unquestioningly believe the fabricated stories of the vegetarian warriors.

Only a vegetarian would hold such a rabid anti-meat stance.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes SYZ's post
01-08-2016, 01:34 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
AND another thing.....

Whyizzit???

Why do vegetarians like all the "artificial meats" made out of soybean, wheat germ or whatever toenail fungus they're currently into????

If you don't like meat -- don't eat the fake shit either.....

....

I think they all ought to move into the same neighborhood -- then they can say they're "Veggieburghers"......

....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes onlinebiker's post
01-08-2016, 01:39 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2016 11:35 PM by Shadow Fox.)
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 12:56 PM)SYZ Wrote:  In actuality, none of these have the flavour or the texture of real meat, and some lack the high protein content of red meat. As humans are natural omnivores—like dogs, bears, pigs, chimpanzees, rats, chickens etc—there is no moral "obligation" for us to stop killing animals for food.

First of all I want to point out that this is an argument from Nature. Being Omnivore means nothing in the argument against the morality of torturing animals, the suffering of animals and the consumption of them in their untimely death. I just went over this with someone else. Secondly, You are talking to someone who does eat soy and other plant based products and I can assure you that their flavor and texture DOES have the same thing as the real thing. While it is not quite perfect it gets better as more research and time and money goes into it. Boka sausage links are almost indistinguishable from regular sausage links. They are softer and taste slightly different, but that is about it.


Quote:The consumption of meat causes a lot of health problems and fake meat is a lot more healthy anyway.
Quote: Lots? Citation please.

I am extremely surprised that you do not know this. Here is some info for you from just a few sources.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-...ng-health/

http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resour...ancer-risk

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...k-red-meat

Strokes, cancers, brain diseases, and a shorter life span. Not to mention Meat puts you at a far greater risk of food born illness. E-Coli, Mad cow and other animal diseases that humans can contract, consumption of under-cooked food etc just to name a few.

Quote: [...] without having to rip it away from its mother after birth and having it force fed and tortured its whole six week life span.
Again, in Australia, this is not how it works. Cattle, sheep, pigs etc are not "force fed", nor are they "tortured". And they live a lot longer than six weeks to reach a mature and profitable eating weight. It's obvious you don't live in a farming region, but unquestioningly believe the fabricated stories of the vegetarian warriors.

Only a vegetarian would hold such a rabid anti-meat stance.
[/quote]

No shit sherlock. That's why we don't fucking eat it.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2016, 01:48 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2016 02:00 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
I like berries. All sorta berries. Even cranberries.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2016, 01:50 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 12:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 11:59 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  It comes down to this ---

If you want to live at the bottom of the food chain - that's your right....

I don't underestimate the bottom of the food chain.




Around here - between the vultures, opossums and coyotes -- it'd be a pile of turds by noon the next day...

Big Grin

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes onlinebiker's post
01-08-2016, 02:12 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
reply in red
(01-08-2016 09:38 AM)Dom Wrote:  Matt:

All life eats other life. If they don't kill it themselves, they will eat it after it's dead or after another life form has prepared it for them. The entire living population of earth depends on this and is totally interdependent. That includes plants, they eat both other plants and animals after they have been prepared by live organisms dwelling in the soil. I recommend you study the eco system in detail, it's really interesting.

Wow. I'm actually very up to snuff on the workings of our ecosystem. As a lifelong hunter and fisherman who eats a lot of meat that I kill myself, I'm very much a part of that ecosystem.

Evolution has created such a finely tuned, extremely varied fauna and flora - it's breath taking. I don't need to look at the universe to be in awe - I can be totally awed just stepping outside my door (I live in nature).

I too am in awe.

Humans are a part of that. They happen to be currently dominant. With that comes a responsibility - humans need to be stewards of all the other life forms to ensure that our eco system continues to function for our descendants.

Now you're going into fairytale land. What evidence do you have that humans have a responsibility to ensure our eco system continues to function? You know that earth won't be around forever right? Even if we maintain a healthy ecosystem for a very long time, we know that not even our planet will last forever. I just don't see any evidence that humans, or chimps, or any other animals have any responsibilities at all.

Ideally everyone lives the way evolution has adapted them, this ensures maximum health . And ideally we do this in a humane manner that respects and protects other humans and all other life forms.

So you say "respect and protect other humans and all other life forms." Is putting them in cages and slaughtering and eating them "respecting and protecting them"?

Pro tip: When you say that something is ideal, it actually doesn't mean that it's universally ideal, it only means that it's your preference. It would be less misleading if you would simply use the word preference.


This can be done, and it is what you, as compassionate person, should strive to achieve.

What about a person lacking compassion? They should disrespect and endanger humans and all other life forms? This would be consistent with your logic.

Telling people that they cannot live the way they evolved is not going to work, you will get a sub culture of followers and maybe you will feel good about your own life, but you are not furthering your cause - if indeed that cause is animal welfare.

My cause is not animal welfare. I enjoy killing and eating animals. my cause is to help people not live in fairytale land, where humans have inherent responsibilities and other such nonsense.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2016, 02:15 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 12:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  You're a nitwit. We're talking about people, not deer.

I don't give a fuck about your absurd hypotheticals.

Translation: I've painted myself into a corner that there's no way out of unless I admit I was wrong. Instead of admitting I was wrong, I'm going to stick to my guns and resort to name calling and stomping my foot, that'll show them.....
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: