Vegan/vegetarianism
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01-08-2016, 02:16 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 12:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  Fuck off. Drinking Beverage

Translation: Someone showed me that I was wrong, now I'm VERY angry.
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01-08-2016, 02:20 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 02:12 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  reply in red
(01-08-2016 09:38 AM)Dom Wrote:  Matt:

All life eats other life. If they don't kill it themselves, they will eat it after it's dead or after another life form has prepared it for them. The entire living population of earth depends on this and is totally interdependent. That includes plants, they eat both other plants and animals after they have been prepared by live organisms dwelling in the soil. I recommend you study the eco system in detail, it's really interesting.

Wow. I'm actually very up to snuff on the workings of our ecosystem. As a lifelong hunter and fisherman who eats a lot of meat that I kill myself, I'm very much a part of that ecosystem.

Evolution has created such a finely tuned, extremely varied fauna and flora - it's breath taking. I don't need to look at the universe to be in awe - I can be totally awed just stepping outside my door (I live in nature).

I too am in awe.

Humans are a part of that. They happen to be currently dominant. With that comes a responsibility - humans need to be stewards of all the other life forms to ensure that our eco system continues to function for our descendants.

Now you're going into fairytale land. What evidence do you have that humans have a responsibility to ensure our eco system continues to function? You know that earth won't be around forever right? Even if we maintain a healthy ecosystem for a very long time, we know that not even our planet will last forever. I just don't see any evidence that humans, or chimps, or any other animals have any responsibilities at all.

Ideally everyone lives the way evolution has adapted them, this ensures maximum health . And ideally we do this in a humane manner that respects and protects other humans and all other life forms.

So you say "respect and protect other humans and all other life forms." Is putting them in cages and slaughtering and eating them "respecting and protecting them"?

Pro tip: When you say that something is ideal, it actually doesn't mean that it's universally ideal, it only means that it's your preference. It would be less misleading if you would simply use the word preference.


This can be done, and it is what you, as compassionate person, should strive to achieve.

What about a person lacking compassion? They should disrespect and endanger humans and all other life forms? This would be consistent with your logic.

Telling people that they cannot live the way they evolved is not going to work, you will get a sub culture of followers and maybe you will feel good about your own life, but you are not furthering your cause - if indeed that cause is animal welfare.

My cause is not animal welfare. I enjoy killing and eating animals. my cause is to help people not live in fairytale land, where humans have inherent responsibilities and other such nonsense.

How come I was under the impression that you were a vegan? Sustainable agriculture is not a fairy tale. Animals being raised for food while having a good life is not a fairy tale, I have done it myself and source my meat from small farms that do the same.

If you think the world is doomed and you don't give a shit, that's your business.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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01-08-2016, 02:23 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 02:20 PM)Dom Wrote:  If you think the world is doomed and you don't give a shit, that's your business.




There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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01-08-2016, 02:25 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 02:16 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 12:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  Fuck off. Drinking Beverage

Translation: Someone showed me that I was wrong, now I'm VERY angry.

Chas does not get angry. Anger is too afraid to dick with Chas.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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01-08-2016, 02:29 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 02:20 PM)Dom Wrote:  How come I was under the impression that you were a vegan? Sustainable agriculture is not a fairy tale. Animals being raised for food while having a good life is not a fairy tale, I have done it myself and source my meat from small farms that do the same.

If you think the world is doomed and you don't give a shit, that's your business.

It's a fairytale to believe that humans inherently have rights and/or responsibilities that no other animals have. People often cite that humans' increased awareness come with responsibilities, but it doesn't logically follow. To think that pigs want to be put in cages and slaughtered and eaten, is living in fairytale land. To think that it's wrong to torture pigs is living in fairytale land. The truth is, as far as we can tell, the universe doesn't give a fuck. That said, we all have preferences. For example, I enjoy killing deer and turkey, but not coyotes because I love dogs, and they're too similar to dogs for me to have the desire to kill them. However, my preference doesn't mean that it's wrong to kill coyotes. It's also not wrong to torture them, it's simply not my preference. I just want people to realize that morality/rights/responsibilities don't exist, only preferences.
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01-08-2016, 02:33 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
At 53 yo I seem to have lost my taste for meat. I don't like the texture. Dunno how it happened. Sashimi on the other hand is always delicious. Drooling

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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01-08-2016, 02:33 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
I plan to torture a donut this morning. I swear, that donut has had it coming. Grrrrrr.

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01-08-2016, 02:41 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 02:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  At 53 yo I seem to have lost my taste for meat. I don't like the texture. Dunno how it happened. Sashimi on the other hand is always delicious. Drooling

When did sashimi stop being meat?
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01-08-2016, 02:54 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 02:15 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 12:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  You're a nitwit. We're talking about people, not deer.

I don't give a fuck about your absurd hypotheticals.

Translation: I've painted myself into a corner that there's no way out of unless I admit I was wrong. Instead of admitting I was wrong, I'm going to stick to my guns and resort to name calling and stomping my foot, that'll show them.....

What corner? My opinion that people have a right to themselves and the right to enforce that is not right or wrong. Facepalm
However, it is the only logical basis for a just society.

You are welcome to keep on demanding some basis from your narrow viewpoint;
I am simply unwilling to get sucked into your pointless argument.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-08-2016, 02:57 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 02:16 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 12:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  Fuck off. Drinking Beverage

Translation: Someone showed me that I was wrong, now I'm VERY angry.

What annoys me is made-up quotes. It's cheap and dishonest.

And telling me what I think will get you negative rep. real quick.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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