Vegan/vegetarianism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-08-2016, 04:35 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(02-08-2016 02:51 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  So yes. The universe "does" care about us! Because we do and we and the universe are both the same person....just different parts of it.

Members of ISIS want shadow fox to die a horrible death. Members of ISIS are part of the universe. Part of the universe wants shadow fox to die a horrible death.

I hope this helps to show you how your post is irrelevant.

Objective morality doesn't exist. Preference exists, but people's preferences are often in direct conflict with another person's preference. One person's preference can't be objectively better than another's.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2016, 08:05 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 01:39 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 12:56 PM)SYZ Wrote:  In actuality, none of these have the flavour or the texture of real meat...
I can assure you that their flavor and texture DOES have the same thing as the real thing. While it is not quite perfect it gets better as more research and time and money goes into it. Boka sausage links are almost indistinguishable from regular sausage links. They are softer and taste slightly different, but that is about it.
Your apparent self-contradictions prove my point about flavour and texture do they not?

Quote:http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-...ng-health/
PETA are truly fanatical vegetarians, and their skewed opinions re animal treatment can be totally ignored as ultimately inconsequential in debates of this nature. There's not much of their stuff I'd listen to, as half their alleged "statistics" are merely 3rd-party hearsay or misrepresentations of fact.

Quote:http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resour...ancer-risk
The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) is a non-profit research and advocacy organization based in Washington DC, which promotes a vegan plant-based diet. The National Council Against Health Fraud (NCAHF) has criticized PCRM as being "a propaganda machine" and the American Medical Association has called PCRM a "pseudo-physicians group" promoting possibly dangerous nutritional advice.

The US Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) has called PCRM a front for PETA, arguing that when PCRM offers health advice, they "do a very slick job of obscuring their real intentions," which is simply to oppose the use of meat and animal products.

Quote:https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...k-red-meat
The[ir] findings suggest that meat eaters might help improve their health by substituting other healthy protein sources for some of the red meat they eat... But most of these studies were done over limited periods of time, had design flaws, or were done in populations with diets other than that of the typical American... When the researchers accounted for known risk factors in red meat—like saturated fat, dietary cholesterol and iron—they still couldn't account for all of the risk associated with eating red meat. Other mechanisms may be involved, or other unknown factors may affect the results. Further study will be needed to fully understand the connection between red meat consumption and health.

Quote:Not to mention Meat puts you at a far greater risk of food born illness. E-Coli, Mad cow and other animal diseases that humans can contract, consumption of under-cooked food etc just to name a few.
Nope. Ground-cropped green vegetables—lettuce, spinach, cabbage, celery, kale etc—have a far higher risk of carrying E. coli than meat. The FAO/WHO have ranked leafy green vegetables as the highest priority among fresh fruits and vegetables in terms of microbiological hazards. Pathogens introduced during any step of production may not only survive but also multiply. The bacterial pathogens salmonella and E. coli have been related to the majority of the global outbreaks of food-borne illness associated with leafy vegetables.

Your claim about "mad cow disease" is totally erroneous. There has never been one single case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy recorded in Australia. I'd also like to know what "other animal diseases" humans can contract from cows, sheep, or pigs? And you do know that Steak Tartare is made with high quality, uncooked finely chopped or minced raw beef. Or maybe not?

Quote:No shit sherlock. That's why we don't fucking eat it.
Sorry; I don't respond to insults.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes SYZ's post
02-08-2016, 08:20 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(02-08-2016 04:35 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(02-08-2016 02:51 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  So yes. The universe "does" care about us! Because we do and we and the universe are both the same person....just different parts of it.

Members of ISIS want shadow fox to die a horrible death. Members of ISIS are part of the universe. Part of the universe wants shadow fox to die a horrible death.

I hope this helps to show you how your post is irrelevant.

Objective morality doesn't exist. Preference exists, but people's preferences are often in direct conflict with another person's preference. One person's preference can't be objectively better than another's.

Have you had communication with members of ISIS saying they want Shadow Fox to die in a particular manner? Or are just making that up?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2016, 08:25 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(02-08-2016 08:05 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 01:39 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  I can assure you that their flavor and texture DOES have the same thing as the real thing. While it is not quite perfect it gets better as more research and time and money goes into it. Boka sausage links are almost indistinguishable from regular sausage links. They are softer and taste slightly different, but that is about it.
Your apparent self-contradictions prove my point about flavour and texture do they not?

Quote:http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-...ng-health/
PETA are truly fanatical vegetarians, and their skewed opinions re animal treatment can be totally ignored as ultimately inconsequential in debates of this nature. There's not much of their stuff I'd listen to, as half their alleged "statistics" are merely 3rd-party hearsay or misrepresentations of fact.

Quote:http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resour...ancer-risk
The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) is a non-profit research and advocacy organization based in Washington DC, which promotes a vegan plant-based diet. The National Council Against Health Fraud (NCAHF) has criticized PCRM as being "a propaganda machine" and the American Medical Association has called PCRM a "pseudo-physicians group" promoting possibly dangerous nutritional advice.

The US Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) has called PCRM a front for PETA, arguing that when PCRM offers health advice, they "do a very slick job of obscuring their real intentions," which is simply to oppose the use of meat and animal products.

Quote:https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...k-red-meat
The[ir] findings suggest that meat eaters might help improve their health by substituting other healthy protein sources for some of the red meat they eat... But most of these studies were done over limited periods of time, had design flaws, or were done in populations with diets other than that of the typical American... When the researchers accounted for known risk factors in red meat—like saturated fat, dietary cholesterol and iron—they still couldn't account for all of the risk associated with eating red meat. Other mechanisms may be involved, or other unknown factors may affect the results. Further study will be needed to fully understand the connection between red meat consumption and health.

Quote:Not to mention Meat puts you at a far greater risk of food born illness. E-Coli, Mad cow and other animal diseases that humans can contract, consumption of under-cooked food etc just to name a few.
Nope. Ground-cropped green vegetables—lettuce, spinach, cabbage, celery, kale etc—have a far higher risk of carrying E. coli than meat. The FAO/WHO have ranked leafy green vegetables as the highest priority among fresh fruits and vegetables in terms of microbiological hazards. Pathogens introduced during any step of production may not only survive but also multiply. The bacterial pathogens salmonella and E. coli have been related to the majority of the global outbreaks of food-borne illness associated with leafy vegetables.

Your claim about "mad cow disease" is totally erroneous. There has never been one single case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy recorded in Australia. I'd also like to know what "other animal diseases" humans can contract from cows, sheep, or pigs? And you do know that Steak Tartare is made with high quality, uncooked finely chopped or minced raw beef. Or maybe not?

Quote:No shit sherlock. That's why we don't fucking eat it.
Sorry; I don't respond to insults.

Yes. SYZ got it perfectly right. Thumbsup

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
02-08-2016, 08:27 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 03:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:41 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  When did sashimi stop being meat?

You're one of them common folk ain't you. Sashimi melts in your mouth with no mastication, meat, not so much.

Just looked up sashami, not previously having it in my vocabulary. It says raw meat or fish. I have never before heard anyone say that raw meat is better for humans than cooked meat! Nor am I ready to accept that as fact.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(01-08-2016 01:39 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 12:56 PM)SYZ Wrote:  In actuality, none of these have the flavour or the texture of real meat, and some lack the high protein content of red meat. As humans are natural omnivores—like dogs, bears, pigs, chimpanzees, rats, chickens etc—there is no moral "obligation" for us to stop killing animals for food.

First of all I want to point out that this is an argument from Nature. Being Omnivore means nothing in the argument against the morality of torturing animals, the suffering of animals and the consumption of them in their untimely death. I just went over this with someone else. Secondly, You are talking to someone who does eat soy and other plant based products and I can assure you that their flavor and texture DOES have the same thing as the real thing. While it is not quite perfect it gets better as more research and time and money goes into it. Boka sausage links are almost indistinguishable from regular sausage links. They are softer and taste slightly different, but that is about it.


Quote:The consumption of meat causes a lot of health problems and fake meat is a lot more healthy anyway.
Quote: Lots? Citation please.

I am extremely surprised that you do not know this. Here is some info for you from just a few sources.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-...ng-health/

http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resour...ancer-risk

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...k-red-meat

Strokes, cancers, brain diseases, and a shorter life span. Not to mention Meat puts you at a far greater risk of food born illness. E-Coli, Mad cow and other animal diseases that humans can contract, consumption of under-cooked food etc just to name a few.

Quote: [...] without having to rip it away from its mother after birth and having it force fed and tortured its whole six week life span.
Again, in Australia, this is not how it works. Cattle, sheep, pigs etc are not "force fed", nor are they "tortured". And they live a lot longer than six weeks to reach a mature and profitable eating weight. It's obvious you don't live in a farming region, but unquestioningly believe the fabricated stories of the vegetarian warriors.

Only a vegetarian would hold such a rabid anti-meat stance.

No shit sherlock. That's why we don't fucking eat it.
[/quote]
Please do not take this the wrong way I respect your decision /rights as a vegetarian absolutely but I'm just not sure about the peta citation, this is an organization with a radical agenda that is highly emotive and talks about the rape of bees, which I find quite frankly bonkers. If I see peta citations / articles etc I just switch off. To my mind they don't help the vegetarian cause they hinder it. Do you mind if I ask you if you are a vegan or a vegetarian? Do you eat eggs and cheese? I think I could survive as a vegetarian as long as I could eat eggs and have mac and cheese occasionally, I don't like Quorn or fake meats they suck but we should definitely eat less meat than we do, I think it takes quite a lot of grain to produce one pound of meat if I remember correctly.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2016, 10:08 AM (This post was last modified: 02-08-2016 11:50 AM by Dom.)
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(02-08-2016 10:03 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 01:39 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  First of all I want to point out that this is an argument from Nature. Being Omnivore means nothing in the argument against the morality of torturing animals, the suffering of animals and the consumption of them in their untimely death. I just went over this with someone else. Secondly, You are talking to someone who does eat soy and other plant based products and I can assure you that their flavor and texture DOES have the same thing as the real thing. While it is not quite perfect it gets better as more research and time and money goes into it. Boka sausage links are almost indistinguishable from regular sausage links. They are softer and taste slightly different, but that is about it.



I am extremely surprised that you do not know this. Here is some info for you from just a few sources.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-...ng-health/

http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resour...ancer-risk

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...k-red-meat

Strokes, cancers, brain diseases, and a shorter life span. Not to mention Meat puts you at a far greater risk of food born illness. E-Coli, Mad cow and other animal diseases that humans can contract, consumption of under-cooked food etc just to name a few.

Again, in Australia, this is not how it works. Cattle, sheep, pigs etc are not "force fed", nor are they "tortured". And they live a lot longer than six weeks to reach a mature and profitable eating weight. It's obvious you don't live in a farming region, but unquestioningly believe the fabricated stories of the vegetarian warriors.

Only a vegetarian would hold such a rabid anti-meat stance.
Quote:No shit sherlock. That's why we don't fucking eat it.

Please do not take this the wrong way I respect your decision /rights as a vegetarian absolutely but I'm just not sure about the peta citation, this is an organization with a radical agenda that is highly emotive and talks about the rape of bees, which I find quite frankly bonkers. If I see peta citations / articles etc I just switch off. To my mind they don't help the vegetarian cause they hinder it. Do you mind if I ask you if you are a vegan or a vegetarian? Do you eat eggs and cheese? I think I could survive as a vegetarian as long as I could eat eggs and have mac and cheese occasionally, I don't like Quorn or fake meats they suck but we should definitely eat less meat than we do, I think it takes quite a lot of grain to produce one pound of meat if I remember correctly.

I feel much the same way. I do respect whatever food preferences people have - it's after all your own body.

I also do not respect Peta in the least. Despite, or more likely because, I am all for animal welfare.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2016, 10:18 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(02-08-2016 08:20 AM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(02-08-2016 04:35 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Members of ISIS want shadow fox to die a horrible death. Members of ISIS are part of the universe. Part of the universe wants shadow fox to die a horrible death.

I hope this helps to show you how your post is irrelevant.

Objective morality doesn't exist. Preference exists, but people's preferences are often in direct conflict with another person's preference. One person's preference can't be objectively better than another's.

Have you had communication with members of ISIS saying they want Shadow Fox to die in a particular manner? Or are just making that up?

Making it up. Perhaps you can go visit an ISIS headquarters and find out whether or not it is true?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2016, 10:32 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
There's three type of vegetarians...

1. The food centered. These folks eat veggies, because they like veggies -- if you want to eat a baby rat - they're fine with it because it leaves more of the leaves for them.....
They're nice people who just want what they want - and are content to let others eat as they like.

2. The "ideological vegan" - this is usually a young girl -- who mistakes her maternal feelings for critters with a face for "morals" -- and thinks that everyone who eats meat should die. Except for the wolves, jaguars, lions, bears, coyotes ect, ect, (and they see no contradiction in their regard for life)
3. The vagitarian. These are young guys who think they're going to get some vegan pussy, should they pretend to not eat meat..... They can frequently be found late at night at McDonalds - eating burger after burger --- providing there's no likely vegan girls watching....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like onlinebiker's post
02-08-2016, 11:50 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
Not a veggie or vegan but prefer the Linda Mcartney brand of sausage rolls to normal pork sausage rolls. A lot of the other meat substitute stuff just tastes like flavoured cardboard.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: