Vegan/vegetarianism
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02-08-2016, 09:21 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(02-08-2016 10:03 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 01:39 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  First of all I want to point out that this is an argument from Nature. Being Omnivore means nothing in the argument against the morality of torturing animals, the suffering of animals and the consumption of them in their untimely death. I just went over this with someone else. Secondly, You are talking to someone who does eat soy and other plant based products and I can assure you that their flavor and texture DOES have the same thing as the real thing. While it is not quite perfect it gets better as more research and time and money goes into it. Boka sausage links are almost indistinguishable from regular sausage links. They are softer and taste slightly different, but that is about it.



I am extremely surprised that you do not know this. Here is some info for you from just a few sources.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-...ng-health/

http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resour...ancer-risk

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...k-red-meat

Strokes, cancers, brain diseases, and a shorter life span. Not to mention Meat puts you at a far greater risk of food born illness. E-Coli, Mad cow and other animal diseases that humans can contract, consumption of under-cooked food etc just to name a few.

Again, in Australia, this is not how it works. Cattle, sheep, pigs etc are not "force fed", nor are they "tortured". And they live a lot longer than six weeks to reach a mature and profitable eating weight. It's obvious you don't live in a farming region, but unquestioningly believe the fabricated stories of the vegetarian warriors.

Only a vegetarian would hold such a rabid anti-meat stance.

No shit sherlock. That's why we don't fucking eat it.

Quote:Please do not take this the wrong way I respect your decision /rights as a vegetarian absolutely but I'm just not sure about the peta citation, this is an organization with a radical agenda that is highly emotive and talks about the rape of bees, which I find quite frankly bonkers. If I see peta citations / articles etc I just switch off. To my mind they don't help the vegetarian cause they hinder it. Do you mind if I ask you if you are a vegan or a vegetarian? Do you eat eggs and cheese? I think I could survive as a vegetarian as long as I could eat eggs and have mac and cheese occasionally, I don't like Quorn or fake meats they suck but we should definitely eat less meat than we do, I think it takes quite a lot of grain to produce one pound of meat if I remember correctly.


Have you ever tried these before?

[Image: 759283550022.jpg]

[Image: kicproductimage-128957__0054_buffalowings_3d.jpg]


Only thing is the Chicken can be overcooked easily and when it does its somewhere between rock hard or tough and chewy. Kind of a lot like when you deep fry chicken wings for way too long. But cooked just right and they are great imo.


Some meats are made with grain, others are made with pea protein like Beyond meat. It depends on the company that makes them and what they are making. I have tried beyond meats chicken and while the consistency is pretty similar to strips they are putrid! Even in Alfredo sauce you cannot make those things work. Boca makes terrible beef crumbles but great veggie patties, and beyond meats pretend hamburger patties are really great too!

It all depends on tastes and what item you get from which company really. Some people avoid them all together and just stick with vegetables and fruits or make their own veggie patties at home. Subway's veggie patty is decent and I get one of those sandwhiches once in a while (yes I like subway).


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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03-08-2016, 02:06 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(02-08-2016 09:21 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(02-08-2016 10:03 AM)adey67 Wrote:  No shit sherlock. That's why we don't fucking eat it.

Quote:Please do not take this the wrong way I respect your decision /rights as a vegetarian absolutely but I'm just not sure about the peta citation, this is an organization with a radical agenda that is highly emotive and talks about the rape of bees, which I find quite frankly bonkers. If I see peta citations / articles etc I just switch off. To my mind they don't help the vegetarian cause they hinder it. Do you mind if I ask you if you are a vegan or a vegetarian? Do you eat eggs and cheese? I think I could survive as a vegetarian as long as I could eat eggs and have mac and cheese occasionally, I don't like Quorn or fake meats they suck but we should definitely eat less meat than we do, I think it takes quite a lot of grain to produce one pound of meat if I remember correctly.


Have you ever tried these before?

[Image: 759283550022.jpg]

[Image: kicproductimage-128957__0054_buffalowings_3d.jpg]


Only thing is the Chicken can be overcooked easily and when it does its somewhere between rock hard or tough and chewy. Kind of a lot like when you deep fry chicken wings for way too long. But cooked just right and they are great imo.


Some meats are made with grain, others are made with pea protein like Beyond meat. It depends on the company that makes them and what they are making. I have tried beyond meats chicken and while the consistency is pretty similar to strips they are putrid! Even in Alfredo sauce you cannot make those things work. Boca makes terrible beef crumbles but great veggie patties, and beyond meats pretend hamburger patties are really great too!

It all depends on tastes and what item you get from which company really. Some people avoid them all together and just stick with vegetables and fruits or make their own veggie patties at home. Subway's veggie patty is decent and I get one of those sandwhiches once in a while (yes I like subway).

Sadly I don't think the boca sausages are available in the UK. Vegetable patties are quite nice I've had some of them before and I love lentils especially puy lentils served with margarine melted on top and lots of white pepper.
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03-08-2016, 04:25 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(03-08-2016 02:06 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(02-08-2016 09:21 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Have you ever tried these before?

[Image: 759283550022.jpg]

[Image: kicproductimage-128957__0054_buffalowings_3d.jpg]


Only thing is the Chicken can be overcooked easily and when it does its somewhere between rock hard or tough and chewy. Kind of a lot like when you deep fry chicken wings for way too long. But cooked just right and they are great imo.


Some meats are made with grain, others are made with pea protein like Beyond meat. It depends on the company that makes them and what they are making. I have tried beyond meats chicken and while the consistency is pretty similar to strips they are putrid! Even in Alfredo sauce you cannot make those things work. Boca makes terrible beef crumbles but great veggie patties, and beyond meats pretend hamburger patties are really great too!

It all depends on tastes and what item you get from which company really. Some people avoid them all together and just stick with vegetables and fruits or make their own veggie patties at home. Subway's veggie patty is decent and I get one of those sandwhiches once in a while (yes I like subway).

Sadly I don't think the boca sausages are available in the UK. Vegetable patties are quite nice I've had some of them before and I love lentils especially puy lentils served with margarine melted on top and lots of white pepper.

Sounds pretty good.

I also found some of these for the topic we are discussing as well.






and a few links I remember from a while ago.

http://thenailthatsticksup.com/2011/07/0...at-eating/

http://www.salon.com/2016/01/09/new_athe...l_leaders/


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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03-08-2016, 05:38 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
Thanks for the links I think I understand things a bit better nowThumbsup Sadly the second link didn't work for me but the video and first link did give me an understanding of a different perspective
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03-08-2016, 08:49 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
I don't believe that we know everything about food. Not by a looooooong shot.

Which is why I avoid processed foods.

Many of the government guidelines are overturned on a regular basis. Bad for you today, good for you tomorrow and vice versa. We don't know shit.

The evils of Cholesterol have been a cornerstone for much modern medicine, but now the government says this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22037012

Quote:SUMMARY:

The lines of evidence coming from current epidemiological studies and from clinical interventions utilizing different types of cholesterol challenges support the notion that the recommendations limiting dietary cholesterol should be reconsidered.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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03-08-2016, 09:38 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
I notice that a lot of vegetarian-appropriate foodstuffs here in Australia are marked Gluten Free. This is nothing more than a cynical marketing ploy preying on gullible vegetarians and vegans. Only 1.4% of our population suffers from coeliac disease, and those people have to know precisely what foods they must avoid—wheat, rye, barley and oats. In Australia, all allergenic food ingredients must by law be listed on the product packaging.

So the contrived gluten free labelling is all bullshit, and is used by manufacturers and supermarkets to unscrupulously boost profit margins by implying it costs more to produce gluten free foods—which is untrue.

In fact, one could claim that the entire vegetarian marketplace is designed to fool people into paying more than a product's actually worth. I know a couple of veggies who only buy "organic" lettuce, kale, tomatoes, spinach, celery etc. LOL.

[Image: vegies_633495.jpg]

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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03-08-2016, 09:47 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(03-08-2016 09:38 AM)SYZ Wrote:  I notice that a lot of vegetarian-appropriate foodstuffs here in Australia are marked Gluten Free. This is nothing more than a cynical marketing ploy preying on gullible vegetarians and vegans. Only 1.4% of our population suffers from coeliac disease, and those people have to know precisely what foods they must avoid—wheat, rye, barley and oats. In Australia, all allergenic food ingredients must by law be listed on the product packaging.

So the contrived gluten free labelling is all bullshit, and is used by manufacturers and supermarkets to unscrupulously boost profit margins by implying it costs more to produce gluten free foods—which is untrue.

In fact, one could claim that the entire vegetarian marketplace is designed to fool people into paying more than a product's actually worth. I know a couple of veggies who only buy "organic" lettuce, kale, tomatoes, spinach, celery etc. LOL.

[Image: vegies_633495.jpg]

I don't like poison on my food either. Thing is, even organic food is coated in poison. Organic pesticides are also poison. People forget that.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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03-08-2016, 09:49 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
I wonder what veggies/vegans think of eating bugs. 'Cause they already are. I used to count bug parts in flour, corn, a variety of grains. I never found a clean sample.FDA Defect Levels Handbook

#sigh
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03-08-2016, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2016 11:39 AM by I Am.)
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
It's interesting to me that the choices that other people make about food cause such strong feelings in oneself. I experience this too. I have practiced vegetarianism and veganism. Right now I am practicing making non-animal or non-meat choices when they are as convenient as animal ones. That means using soy creamer in my coffee, using some veggie-based meat replacements at home, ordering vegetable or meat-replacement sandwiches (seitan cheesesteaks are soooo good, better than beef imho), cheese enchiladas instead of beef or chicken, &etc. I do still eat meat and other animal products sometimes.

But the emotional reactions... that's a different matter than just making food choices. The minority of veggie folks who argue against meat consumption tend to do so either by appealing to self-interest via claims of improved health, or on moral grounds by pointing out the very common abuse and mistreatment that happens in mass-production meat factories, where the majority of first-world meat comes from.

But what causes the strong emotional reaction in the minority of meat-promoting folks? Most omnivores just dismiss and ignore anti-meat arguments, but some, maybe some here, have vehement reactions toward any arguments against animal consumption. I wonder if that strong demonstration of carnivorousness is this:

Reaction formation is a defense mechanism in which one suppresses a strong negative feeling, like guilt or shame, by behaving the opposite way of what one feels. It's the same defense mechanism which causes homosexual men to be rabidly anti-gay.

I think that some of the people who have over-the-top, angry reactions to the idea of rejecting meat may be defensively compensating for their own feeling of guilt or self-loathing for participating in an industry which they know mistreats animals. I'm not pointing any fingers or claiming this is universally true. Only a person's own self-reflection will reveal whether that's true for themselves.

Edit to add: I have this guilt. I tend toward other defense mechanisms and reactions, like compartmentalization ("I only ate that steak because that's what my father in law was serving, and I don't want to be rude. It's okay as a social concession.") and displacement ("I feel terrible that some of the fish I've eaten were likely caught by slaves in Asia. So my cats can't have any fish-based food any more.") I am not trying to judge anyone for how they deal with their feelings which conflict with their sense of self. I just think it's worthwhile to think about those feelings and reactions.
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03-08-2016, 10:42 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(03-08-2016 10:28 AM)I Am Wrote:  It's interesting to me that the choices the other people make about food cause such strong feelings in oneself. I experience this too. I have practiced vegetarianism and veganism. Right now I am practicing making non-animal or non-meat choices when they are as convenient as animal ones. That means using soy creamer in my coffee, using some veggie-based meat replacements at home, ordering vegetable or meat-replacement sandwiches (seitan cheesesteaks are soooo good, better than beef imho), cheese enchiladas instead of beef or chicken, &etc. I do still eat meat and other animal products sometimes.

But the emotional reactions... that's a different matter than just making food choices. The minority of veggie folks who argue against meat consumption tend to do so either by appealing to self-interest via claims of improved health, or on moral grounds by pointing out the very common abuse and mistreatment that happens in mass-production meat factories, where the majority of first-world meat comes from.

But what causes the strong emotional reaction in the minority of meat-promoting folks? Most omnivores just dismiss and ignore anti-meat arguments, but some, maybe some here, have vehement reactions toward any arguments against animal consumption. I wonder if that strong demonstration of carnivorousness is this:

Reaction formation is a defense mechanism in which one suppresses a strong negative feeling, like guilt or shame, by behaving the opposite way of what one feels. It's the same defense mechanism which causes homosexual men to be rabidly anti-gay.

I think that some of the people who have over-the-top, angry reactions to the idea of rejecting meat may be defensively compensating for their own feeling of guilt or self-loathing for participating in an industry which they know mistreats animals. I'm not pointing any fingers or claiming this is universally true. Only a person's own self-reflection will reveal whether that's true for themselves.

That happens when people treat diets like a religion.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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