Vegan/vegetarianism
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25-07-2016, 05:30 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
And don't suppose plants are without feeling.

They do have an awareness of "other".....

http://www.positivenewsus.org/trees-comm...other.html

Forest ecologist Suzanne Simard and her colleagues at the University of British Columbia have made a major discovery: trees and plants really do communicate and interact with each other.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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25-07-2016, 07:34 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(24-07-2016 09:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, no. We know for a fact that plants do not have a nervous system. They are incapable of thought, therefore they have zero intelligence.

Plants aren't capable of 'enjoying'.

Prove to me that nervous systems are always necessary to process information that triggers reactions. Prove to me they are incapable of some form of "thought" and that they have zero intelligence.

You can't, just like you can't prove that there is no god.

Our knowledge is limited to trying to apply what we have learned about ourselves to other life. I posit that it is entirely possible that plants function on a level we don't understand yet, they are not at all like us.

Assuming that they feel nothing because they are not wired like us is not science anymore, it's guessing and prejudice.

I have brought the example of my honeysuckle shrub before. It was growing along the fence on the inside of the Llama pasture. The Llamas kept snacking on it, causing it to be stunted and poor. This shrub ceased to try to generate growth on it's side of the fence. But it created shoots on the other, safe side of the fence. Over the course of 4 years the entire shrub had moved to the safe side of the fence. It still grows there happily today, some 10 years later.

How did that happen? Coincidence? Just maybe, but not likely.

Explain to me why the shrub would seek to change it's environment, and how.

You can't. That means we don't know.

Somewhere along the line we have to admit that we just don't know everything yet. Plants have some system of recognition of adversity, and some ability for decision making. It is definitely not anything like ours.

Call me a "plant agnostic".

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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25-07-2016, 03:32 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(25-07-2016 07:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  Call me a "plant agnostic".

Just because you can't hear the carrot scream don't mean it ain't screaming. Save a plant, eat a cow.

#sigh
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25-07-2016, 04:27 PM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2016 04:30 PM by JDog554.)
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(25-07-2016 07:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 09:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, no. We know for a fact that plants do not have a nervous system. They are incapable of thought, therefore they have zero intelligence.

Plants aren't capable of 'enjoying'.

Prove to me that nervous systems are always necessary to process information that triggers reactions. Prove to me they are incapable of some form of "thought" and that they have zero intelligence.

You can't, just like you can't prove that there is no god.

Our knowledge is limited to trying to apply what we have learned about ourselves to other life. I posit that it is entirely possible that plants function on a level we don't understand yet, they are not at all like us.

Assuming that they feel nothing because they are not wired like us is not science anymore, it's guessing and prejudice.

I have brought the example of my honeysuckle shrub before. It was growing along the fence on the inside of the Llama pasture. The Llamas kept snacking on it, causing it to be stunted and poor. This shrub ceased to try to generate growth on it's side of the fence. But it created shoots on the other, safe side of the fence. Over the course of 4 years the entire shrub had moved to the safe side of the fence. It still grows there happily today, some 10 years later.

How did that happen? Coincidence? Just maybe, but not likely.

Explain to me why the shrub would seek to change it's environment, and how.

You can't. That means we don't know.

Somewhere along the line we have to admit that we just don't know everything yet. Plants have some system of recognition of adversity, and some ability for decision making. It is definitely not anything like ours.

Call me a "plant agnostic".

The term you are looking for is called Tropisms. It's when a plant changes the way it grows based on stimuli.

http://study.com/academy/lesson/tropisms...rowth.html

http://plantsinmotion.bio.indiana.edu/pl...pisms.html

The plant has a hormone called Auxin which is what tells the plant to change the growth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesiz...rev1.shtml

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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25-07-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(25-07-2016 03:32 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 07:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  Call me a "plant agnostic".

Just because you can't hear the carrot scream don't mean it ain't screaming. Save a plant, eat a cow.

Yes, when one kills a cow it is dead, but when you pull a carrot out of the ground it is still alive and feels its pain for days or weeks until it is dropped into the pot and the heat level drives the pain up to where it softens the poor carrot until it is just mush.
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25-07-2016, 04:55 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(25-07-2016 04:27 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 07:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  Prove to me that nervous systems are always necessary to process information that triggers reactions. Prove to me they are incapable of some form of "thought" and that they have zero intelligence.

You can't, just like you can't prove that there is no god.

Our knowledge is limited to trying to apply what we have learned about ourselves to other life. I posit that it is entirely possible that plants function on a level we don't understand yet, they are not at all like us.

Assuming that they feel nothing because they are not wired like us is not science anymore, it's guessing and prejudice.

I have brought the example of my honeysuckle shrub before. It was growing along the fence on the inside of the Llama pasture. The Llamas kept snacking on it, causing it to be stunted and poor. This shrub ceased to try to generate growth on it's side of the fence. But it created shoots on the other, safe side of the fence. Over the course of 4 years the entire shrub had moved to the safe side of the fence. It still grows there happily today, some 10 years later.

How did that happen? Coincidence? Just maybe, but not likely.

Explain to me why the shrub would seek to change it's environment, and how.

You can't. That means we don't know.

Somewhere along the line we have to admit that we just don't know everything yet. Plants have some system of recognition of adversity, and some ability for decision making. It is definitely not anything like ours.

Call me a "plant agnostic".

The term you are looking for is called Tropisms. It's when a plant changes the way it grows based on stimuli.

http://study.com/academy/lesson/tropisms...rowth.html

http://plantsinmotion.bio.indiana.edu/pl...pisms.html

The plant has a hormone called Auxin which is what tells the plant to change the growth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesiz...rev1.shtml

So far tropism is applied and explained to reaching for the sun and reaching for nutrition. Not getting out of the way of adversity of other origins...

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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25-07-2016, 04:56 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(25-07-2016 04:34 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 03:32 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Just because you can't hear the carrot scream don't mean it ain't screaming. Save a plant, eat a cow.

Yes, when one kills a cow it is dead, but when you pull a carrot out of the ground it is still alive and feels its pain for days or weeks until it is dropped into the pot and the heat level drives the pain up to where it softens the poor carrot until it is just mush.

It's torture I tell you. Torture!

#sigh
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25-07-2016, 05:00 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(25-07-2016 04:55 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 04:27 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  The term you are looking for is called Tropisms. It's when a plant changes the way it grows based on stimuli.

http://study.com/academy/lesson/tropisms...rowth.html

http://plantsinmotion.bio.indiana.edu/pl...pisms.html

The plant has a hormone called Auxin which is what tells the plant to change the growth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesiz...rev1.shtml

So far tropism is applied and explained to reaching for the sun and reaching for nutrition. Not getting out of the way of adversity of other origins...

Those are just a couple examples, Thigmotropism for example is a tropism in response to touch or contact. Tropisms can be positive or negative. Positive = towards the stimuli, Negative = away.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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25-07-2016, 08:50 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(24-07-2016 09:55 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 09:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  Veganism is certainly a denial of what we have evolved to be - omnivores.
Humans are quite capable of ignoring reality in favor of ideology.

Where's the rule that says we always have to follow evolution? I wasn't aware one existed.

Where did I say it was? Consider

We are the product of evolution and we evolved to be omnivores. That is reality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-07-2016, 08:55 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(25-07-2016 07:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(24-07-2016 09:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, no. We know for a fact that plants do not have a nervous system. They are incapable of thought, therefore they have zero intelligence.

Plants aren't capable of 'enjoying'.

Prove to me that nervous systems are always necessary to process information that triggers reactions. Prove to me they are incapable of some form of "thought" and that they have zero intelligence.

You can't, just like you can't prove that there is no god.

Our knowledge is limited to trying to apply what we have learned about ourselves to other life. I posit that it is entirely possible that plants function on a level we don't understand yet, they are not at all like us.

Assuming that they feel nothing because they are not wired like us is not science anymore, it's guessing and prejudice.

I have brought the example of my honeysuckle shrub before. It was growing along the fence on the inside of the Llama pasture. The Llamas kept snacking on it, causing it to be stunted and poor. This shrub ceased to try to generate growth on it's side of the fence. But it created shoots on the other, safe side of the fence. Over the course of 4 years the entire shrub had moved to the safe side of the fence. It still grows there happily today, some 10 years later.

How did that happen? Coincidence? Just maybe, but not likely.

Explain to me why the shrub would seek to change it's environment, and how.

You can't. That means we don't know.

Somewhere along the line we have to admit that we just don't know everything yet. Plants have some system of recognition of adversity, and some ability for decision making. It is definitely not anything like ours.

Call me a "plant agnostic".

Plants have no place where information can be processed.
The reactions to light, to water, to anything are chemical. Phototropism occurs because cells exposed to the light produce growth hormones.

The rest is woo.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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