Vegan/vegetarianism
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27-07-2016, 11:20 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
We used to raise our own pork. We'd get three little piglets and give them a fenced acre, a house, and a couple of bales of straw in the house. They would line the walls of the house with straw and eventually end up with an igloo like structure inside the house. It was cool. They also played rolling tires and soccer. We created a mud bog for them too. We had fun and so did they.

We had a butcher come to the house and the pigs never knew anything happened. They died as happily as they lived. If you ask me, that's about as good as things get on this planet. I wouldn't mind such a life for myself.

The taste of the pork was nothing short of amazing. Nothing you buy in a store ever has such flavor. We were able to trade the bulk of the pork with locals who raised/hunted other food, such as beef, tuna and venison.

It is perfectly possible to be an omnivore and to value and protect animal life at the same time. Just organize a farm exchange close to where you live - and small farms will also love you if you trade in currency. Just get yourself a freezer and some really delicious meat you can feel good about. Support small farms and you are supporting animal welfare.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-07-2016, 06:48 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(27-07-2016 05:56 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(27-07-2016 03:29 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Does a plant feel pain? Can it objectively interact with its environment? Can it think and make choices or feel emotions such as happy sad anger?

Can a plant mourn the loss of its offspring or a family member?

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. The choice to not eat meat has nothing to do with the creature in question being alive. It is sentience. The ability to feel emotions such as despair when something it loved died in front of them. The ability to feel pain when tortured and physically harmed. The ability to feel depression and discomfort and happiness when it is well fed and surrounded by its family and socially interacting with others?

the first half of this video. That is why we choose not to eat meat.




I "clearly have no idea what (I'm) talking about" -- why because I disagree with your puny opinion???

zark off plant molester....

You do not disagree with me. You clearly have no idea what the hell you are talking about and I am pointing that out to you.

Let me ask you a question. Is it OK to torture a human being? Is it OK to take an infant away from its human mother and cut off part of their face without anisthetic shove that baby into a crate and have machines whirl it around by its neck dropping the human baby on a conveyor belt to have it either ground up for plant food or have it sent to a farm?

First answer that question.


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28-07-2016, 03:53 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(27-07-2016 08:39 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I want the world to be at that point of being vastly full of more proclaimed pro gmo vegans and vegetarians. Shifting to make that whole sentient life argument less needed because we are pushing substitutes that are safer, healthier, and more delicious than the typical available options.

If it was more delicious I would be seriously up for that id be its number one fan I'm just not sold we will ever get there at least not in any of our lifetimes, but guilt / death free meat or meat substitute that was as good or better than the real thing would be seriously awesome. If it can be done we will have truly turned a corner as a species.
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28-07-2016, 04:00 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(27-07-2016 11:20 AM)Dom ok Wrote:  We used to raise our own pork. We'd get three little piglets and give them a fenced acre, a house, and a couple of bales of straw in the house. They would line the walls of the house with straw and eventually end up with an igloo like structure inside the house. It was cool. They also played rolling tires and soccer. We created a mud bog for them too. We had fun and so did they.

We had a butcher come to the house and the pigs never knew anything happened. They died as happily as they lived. If you ask me, that's about as good as things get on this planet. I wouldn't mind such a life for myself.

The taste of the pork was nothing short of amazing. Nothing you buy in a store ever has such flavor. We were able to trade the bulk of the pork with locals who raised/hunted other food, such as beef, tuna and venison.

It is perfectly possible to be an omnivore and to value and protect animal life at the same time. Just organize a farm exchange close to where you live - and small farms will also love you if you trade in currency. Just get yourself a freezer and some really delicious meat you can feel good about. Support small farms and you are supporting animal welfare.

I only buy meat locally produced and free range with good animal welfare standards, its way more expensive but I would rather have less meat less often than compromise on those points.
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28-07-2016, 05:52 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(27-07-2016 06:48 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(27-07-2016 05:56 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I "clearly have no idea what (I'm) talking about" -- why because I disagree with your puny opinion???

zark off plant molester....

You do not disagree with me. You clearly have no idea what the hell you are talking about and I am pointing that out to you.

Let me ask you a question. Is it OK to torture a human being? Is it OK to take an infant away from its human mother and cut off part of their face without anisthetic shove that baby into a crate and have machines whirl it around by its neck dropping the human baby on a conveyor belt to have it either ground up for plant food or have it sent to a farm?

First answer that question.


That's two questions......

.....

Grow up - go to school - and learn to count...

Then come back and try again...

.......................................

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28-07-2016, 08:31 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(25-07-2016 05:30 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  And don't suppose plants are without feeling.

They do have an awareness of "other".....

http://www.positivenewsus.org/trees-comm...other.html

Forest ecologist Suzanne Simard and her colleagues at the University of British Columbia have made a major discovery: trees and plants really do communicate and interact with each other.

I guess it depends on your definition of "communicate". As far as animals and humans are concerned, we generally intend it to mean by vocalisation or optical perception. Plants have been proven to have no neuronal synapses necessary for sentience within their biochemical makeup. Therefore they can't possess awareness of "other".

Cats and rodents "interact" with each other, but they certainly don't communicate.

I think Simard is falling under the spell of anthropomorphism with her notion that trees often "talk" to each other, and over vast distances. She also talks about the "harmonious yet complicated social lives of trees"!

—Gotta keep those research grants rollin' in somehow I guess. Big Grin

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28-07-2016, 08:41 AM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(28-07-2016 08:31 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 05:30 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  And don't suppose plants are without feeling.

They do have an awareness of "other".....

http://www.positivenewsus.org/trees-comm...other.html

Forest ecologist Suzanne Simard and her colleagues at the University of British Columbia have made a major discovery: trees and plants really do communicate and interact with each other.

I guess it depends on your definition of "communicate". As far as animals and humans are concerned, we generally intend it to mean by vocalisation or optical perception. Plants have been proven to have no neuronal synapses necessary for sentience within their biochemical makeup. Therefore they can't possess awareness of "other".

Cats and rodents "interact" with each other, but they certainly don't communicate.

I think Simard is falling under the spell of anthropomorphism with her notion that trees often "talk" to each other, and over vast distances. She also talks about the "harmonious yet complicated social lives of trees"!

—Gotta keep those research grants rollin' in somehow I guess. Big Grin

Nobody says that plants have the same physical make-up as animals. No one says they have neuronal synapses or nervous systems or anything animals may have. They are plants. We look for animal attributes because that is what we know to look for. I just posit that there may be things we don't know to look for.

If there were not, we could stop employing science, we know it all already.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-07-2016, 10:40 AM (This post was last modified: 28-07-2016 11:00 AM by adey67.)
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(27-07-2016 06:48 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(27-07-2016 05:56 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I "clearly have no idea what (I'm) talking about" -- why because I disagree with your puny opinion???

zark off plant molester....

You do not disagree with me. You clearly have no idea what the hell you are talking about and I am pointing that out to you.

Let me ask you a question. Is it OK to torture a human being? Is it OK to take an infant away from its human mother and cut off part of their face without anisthetic shove that baby into a crate and have machines whirl it around by its neck dropping the human baby on a conveyor belt to have it either ground up for plant food or have it sent to a farm?

First answer that question.

Ok lets keep things in perspective here were talking about Turkeys not people and its anaesthetic not anisthetic I'm not in favor of surgery without anaesthesia for any species but were talking Turkeys not repeat not people lets keep a bit of perspective here folks.
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30-07-2016, 04:33 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(27-07-2016 06:48 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Let me ask you a question. Is it OK to torture a human being? Is it OK to take an infant away from its human mother and cut off part of their face without anisthetic shove that baby into a crate and have machines whirl it around by its neck dropping the human baby on a conveyor belt to have it either ground up for plant food or have it sent to a farm?

First answer that question.

Is it ok to squash a bug when driving your car? Is it ok to chop up a grasshopper when mowing your lawn? What if you hit a bird? Is it ok to pick up a daddy long legs and pull it's legs off?

Empathy is on a spectrum. Right and wrong (OK and not-OK using your terminology) don't exist. There's only preference. On one end of the spectrum you have Charles Manson, on the other end is Gandhi. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle where we give special consideration to humans and perhaps other primates, so long as we don't view those humans and other primates as a potential threat. Some people extend their empathy to all mammals, and some include all animals, but these people are outliers, as are Manson and Gandhi.
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30-07-2016, 04:41 PM
RE: Vegan/vegetarianism
(30-07-2016 04:33 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Some people extend their empathy to all mammals, and some include all animals, but these people are outliers, as are Manson and Gandhi.

What are you calling me here? Sadcryface

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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