Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
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12-03-2017, 09:48 AM
Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
I was reading the newspaper today and saw an article in the front page about rampant infanticide(female, I guess) in a village out in the middle of nowhere. And it got me thinking..

First I'd ask you to leave "common sense" at the door before entering the thread, because what is common may not always be sensible.

Think of this as a thought experiment if the subject matter is too offensive or macabre.

Disclaimer:I am not a vegan. I love my pork, beef and chicken!

The question is very simple. Why is infanticide so horrific?

Considering the infants to be less than 6 months old because thats when majority of babies are killed.

A fully grown dog is smarter than a 6 month old kid. It does not understand life, it will have no memory. We refer to the baby as 'it' for crying out loud!

The important question here is Why not?

Imagine if you were killed when you were just 6 months old. Now imagine if you were never born. I bet you got the same feeling of trying to imagine nothingness.

The vegans don't eat animals because of..whatever the reasons are but I feel its mostly because they want to hurt the animals. But this is here is very vague as there are a lot of possibilities. It all depends on your definition of pain. For example fish have a different neuro physiological response and dont feel pain the same way we humans do. What about other living things that don't have the capacity for pain, are they not entitled to live?

Now put a 6 month old and a chicken side by side and you'll find that both do not like pain but neither understand the situation and both strive towards the basest of goals. Survival.

I dont wanna generalize, but from personal experience the vegans love towards animals only extends to the species that they can relate to. More specifically ones with 2 eyes, 2 ears and a nose and mouth. For some reason, I cant find any cockroach rights activists..

I was trying to establish that the lines that vegans draw that they will not cross are arbitrary.
Similarly, the rest of us draw the line at killing babies which is also arbitrary.

This brings me to another form of killing babies, abortion. If nobody minds killing a baby inside a womb, why do they mind killing them outside? Makes no sense. Babies respond to pain even inside the womb.

To sum up, If you are vegan, why? If you are not, why all the hate towards killing babies?

Then you might ask the question, where then must we draw the line? Its a good question, I'd like to see your responses for that.

I am not agaisnt veganism. You may do whatever you like. All I ask is that I be allowed kill my babies XD
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12-03-2017, 10:06 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
We're atheist Bucky...

We BBQ babies for breakfast.

Didn't you know?????

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12-03-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
There's a lot of talk around the forum regarding veganism...we don't really need to hear it all again, do we? Sadcryface

We have also debated abortion...infanticide not quite so much.

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12-03-2017, 10:18 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 10:59 AM by RearViewMirror.)
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(12-03-2017 09:48 AM)underdogFTW Wrote:  I was reading the newspaper today and saw an article in the front page about rampant infanticide(female, I guess) in a village out in the middle of nowhere. And it got me thinking..

First I'd ask you to leave "common sense" at the door before entering the thread, because what is common may not always be sensible.

Think of this as a thought experiment if the subject matter is too offensive or macabre.

Disclaimer:I am not a vegan. I love my pork, beef and chicken!

The question is very simple. Why is infanticide so horrific?

Considering the infants to be less than 6 months old because thats when majority of babies are killed.

A fully grown dog is smarter than a 6 month old kid. It does not understand life, it will have no memory. We refer to the baby as 'it' for crying out loud!

The important question here is Why not?

Imagine if you were killed when you were just 6 months old. Now imagine if you were never born. I bet you got the same feeling of trying to imagine nothingness.

The vegans don't eat animals because of..whatever the reasons are but I feel its mostly because they want to hurt the animals. But this is here is very vague as there are a lot of possibilities. It all depends on your definition of pain. For example fish have a different neuro physiological response and dont feel pain the same way we humans do. What about other living things that don't have the capacity for pain, are they not entitled to live?

Now put a 6 month old and a chicken side by side and you'll find that both do not like pain but neither understand the situation and both strive towards the basest of goals. Survival.

I dont wanna generalize, but from personal experience the vegans love towards animals only extends to the species that they can relate to. More specifically ones with 2 eyes, 2 ears and a nose and mouth. For some reason, I cant find any cockroach rights activists..

I was trying to establish that the lines that vegans draw that they will not cross are arbitrary.
Similarly, the rest of us draw the line at killing babies which is also arbitrary.

This brings me to another form of killing babies, abortion. If nobody minds killing a baby inside a womb, why do they mind killing them outside? Makes no sense. Babies respond to pain even inside the womb.

To sum up, If you are vegan, why? If you are not, why all the hate towards killing babies?

Then you might ask the question, where then must we draw the line? Its a good question, I'd like to see your responses for that.

I am not agaisnt veganism. You may do whatever you like. All I ask is that I be allowed kill my babies XD

Interesting topic. Though I am completely and utterly offended since I'm a founding member of PETC (People for the ethical treatment of cockroaches) Tongue

I can't speak for vegans since I'm sure there are multiple reasons for people to only eat vegan. Many probably have nothing to do with a love for animals. And on the subject of animals and their rights. It seems that the people that get emotional about killing animals only do so for the cute ones. I'm generalizing here I realize but since fish can't blink or show emotion then we don't feel as bad about killing them? I dunno. If I were to go out and club a baby seal right now I'd imagine it would piss someone off. If I club a spider? Probably not as many would be pissed.

How we subjectively decide on the value of a species life is beyond my expertise. Being a Firefighter / Paramedic my job is to save lives. As far as infanticide goes... I'd have to say I'm not a fan. I am decidedly pro-choice so I suppose I understand where you're going with "where do you draw the line?". What I personally find ironic is the people that are vehemently anti abortionist are perfectly fine with people bringing a child into this world no matter the circumstances that child may be born into. We don't want to kill them with a morning after pill or within a few weeks when they are just goo inside of a womb. But we don't mind praying on the poor and underprivileged sending them off to a foreign land when they get older to fight in a war that should never have been started in the first place only to be killed 18 years after birth.

Sorry for the ramble... It's still early and I've only had one cup of coffee.

I get to decide what my life looks like, not the other way around.
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12-03-2017, 10:28 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(12-03-2017 09:48 AM)underdogFTW Wrote:  ...
The question is very simple. Why is infanticide so horrific?
...
Then you might ask the question, where then must we draw the line?

I think Jonathan Swift got there way ahead of you with A Modest Proposal
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12-03-2017, 10:48 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
I'm vegan and I try not to kill bugs. Most vegans I know, like me, put them outside if possible. Obviously, I can't speak for all vegans. I don't eat meat because while I love animals, meat is just utterly gross to me. I just don't like the texture. I don't care if people choose to eat meat (although I wish and strive for conditions to be better for animals in factory farms). Inhumane treatment of animals is more my concern, not that people eat them. I also am pro-choice re: abortion, even though I personally would not have one. I believe it's your body, your decision what you do with it.
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12-03-2017, 10:56 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(12-03-2017 10:48 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I also am pro-choice re: abortion, even though I personally would not have one. I believe it's your body, your decision what you do with it.

I Completely agree with you.

As far as vegan and animals are concerned, I don't really hold a stance I suppose. I'm not a vegan (I love seafood and steak too much) but I'm sure the vegan diet is much better for you than one filled with all the processed foods that are on the market.

I get to decide what my life looks like, not the other way around.
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12-03-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(12-03-2017 09:48 AM)underdogFTW Wrote:  To sum up, If you are vegan, why?

Because that is how they have chosen to live. You may not understand or agree with the choice but you should respect it. Unless they are being militant at which point they're fair game.

Quote:If you are not, why all the hate towards killing babies?

Because by the time a baby is born the parents and relatives have usually invested a lot of time, effort and emotion into the concept that this will one day be a person. From a purely objective point of view, babies fall into the category of "not quite a real person yet" but the emotional attachments typicaly override that. Oh and a few billion years of evolution has predisposed us to not making ourselves extinct through killing our offspring.

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12-03-2017, 11:02 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
I am vegan, and I try not to harm or kill anything.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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12-03-2017, 11:03 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(12-03-2017 10:48 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm vegan and I try not to kill bugs. Most vegans I know, like me, put them outside if possible.

I'm a meat-eater and I try to avoid squashing bugs. Eating steak is one thing, needlessly destruction is another. Biting insects are another matter. That's needful destruction and justified self-defense.

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