Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
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13-03-2017, 07:25 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
Yes, I try and avoid it. If I see one, I will try and avoid stepping on it.

I accept there will be millions of bug casualties within my lifetime. I just try to minimise it. I see no need to go killing more. It's not an all-or-nothing situation.

If I'm speciesist, why would I be vegan in the first place?

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13-03-2017, 07:29 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(13-03-2017 07:11 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Bad news for those who claim they try not to squash bugs.

If you've ever:

1. tried to walk across a grassy lawn
2. tried to drive a car
3. tried to use airplanes for transportation
4. tried to ride a bicycle (we could go on for ever)

Then you have most definitely tried to squash bugs. Even just the process of growing vegetables for your vegan diet is going to result in the killing of millions of small animals and bugs.

If you really don't want to be responsible for the killing of bugs or animals, kill yourself. That's the only way it's going to happen.

Quit living in fairytale land. Look reality straight in the face and accept it. Quit being a pussy.

That's why we use the word *try.* We try not to kill bugs and other things, does it happen just as a result of living, yes. So because we inadvertently kill things by simply existing, that equates to killing everything we come in contact with?

It's not about being a pussy, it's about believing that *all* life has value and trying to respect that as best we can. It is possible to live in the gray and be a compassionate human being. I really never understood this all or nothing mentality that some people like to throw at vegans. Why can't doing the best you can to not use animals and animal products in an animal-use driven society be enough? Why can't trying to make lives better for animals and doing what you can do for them be enough?

As vegans, I'm sure just by living in society we come across (and potentially use) animal products on a daily basis, despite our best efforts not to. But I don't believe that due to that, that should equate to, okay go out and kill and use all animals for everything even when there are comparable (and often times better) non-animal alternatives.
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13-03-2017, 07:42 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
And before someone throws the "Well, you're not really vegan if you use animal products simply by living in society" bit, what would you have us call ourselves? If there's another more applicable term, I would surely use it.

I can only go from the English language what best describes my lifestyle. I can either simply say I'm vegan or go into a monologue about how I am allergic to dairy, I don't like the texture of meat, it makes me want to gag, so I don't eat it, yeah I love animals, I don't buy products that are tested on animals, I buy organic because otherwise my skin breaks out from chemicals due to my Irish and sensitive skin, I don't wear wool or use down--too scratchy and I don't like the look or feel of leather clothing and I also don't want to harm animals when there are other alternatives available and I also work to make lives better for animals.

phew! Saying vegan is so much easier, don't you think?
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13-03-2017, 07:54 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
I genuinely admire vegans, I wouldn't have the discipline as I love my bacon and southern fried chicken too much.
It is somewhat ironic though that the brain power we rely on to make personal diet choices evolved from and was made possible by consumption of animal protein and fats.
Personally I think a little meat is healthy but we eat way more than is necessary or justified.
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13-03-2017, 08:01 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(13-03-2017 07:54 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I genuinely admire vegans, I wouldn't have the discipline as I love my bacon and southern fried chicken too much.
It is somewhat ironic though that the brain power we rely on to make personal diet choices evolved from and was made possible by consumption of animal protein and fats.
Personally I think a little meat is healthy but we eat way more than is necessary or justified.

I agree, we're omnivores. That's why I have zero problems with people who eat meat. Luckily, however, nowadays we have options for those who choose not to eat meat for whatever reason. My issue and the causes I fight for have more to do with the inhumane treatment of animals and the use of animals when we don't have to.
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13-03-2017, 08:03 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
I admit I don't value the life of an ant as much as I value the life of a human. It's not possible to do so, and to continue to live. I'd be a total wreck, and I'd be scared to ever take as much as a step outside my door.

But that doesn't mean I don't care at all. If some people don't want to believe that, then that's up to them.

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13-03-2017, 08:06 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(13-03-2017 07:29 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(13-03-2017 07:11 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Bad news for those who claim they try not to squash bugs.

If you've ever:

1. tried to walk across a grassy lawn
2. tried to drive a car
3. tried to use airplanes for transportation
4. tried to ride a bicycle (we could go on for ever)

Then you have most definitely tried to squash bugs. Even just the process of growing vegetables for your vegan diet is going to result in the killing of millions of small animals and bugs.

If you really don't want to be responsible for the killing of bugs or animals, kill yourself. That's the only way it's going to happen.

Quit living in fairytale land. Look reality straight in the face and accept it. Quit being a pussy.

That's why we use the word *try.* We try not to kill bugs and other things, does it happen just as a result of living, yes. So because we inadvertently kill things by simply existing, that equates to killing everything we come in contact with?

It's not about being a pussy, it's about believing that *all* life has value and trying to respect that as best we can. It is possible to live in the gray and be a compassionate human being. I really never understood this all or nothing mentality that some people like to throw at vegans. Why can't doing the best you can to not use animals and animal products in an animal-use driven society be enough? Why can't trying to make lives better for animals and doing what you can do for them be enough?

As vegans, I'm sure just by living in society we come across (and potentially use) animal products on a daily basis, despite our best efforts not to. But I don't believe that due to that, that should equate to, okay go out and kill and use all animals for everything even when there are comparable (and often times better) non-animal alternatives.

I've had people getting really angry with me, totally unprompted, all my life about being vegetarian/vegan. I've concluded it's people who are made to feel uncomfortable about themselves, and so they lash out to try and make themselves feel better.

I accept that other people don't feel the same way as me, and that's their choice. I don't go up to people and preach about it. I can't be getting angry about everything people disagree with me about.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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13-03-2017, 08:09 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(13-03-2017 07:54 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I genuinely admire vegans, I wouldn't have the discipline as I love my bacon and southern fried chicken too much.
It is somewhat ironic though that the brain power we rely on to make personal diet choices evolved from and was made possible by consumption of animal protein and fats.
Personally I think a little meat is healthy but we eat way more than is necessary or justified.

Thank you Smile

It may well be the case that a little meat is healthy. Even if a lot of meat was healthy, I wouldn't eat it, because my feelings about it are too strong. But that's just me.

Due to the very limited nature of my diet (due to health complications), my wife tried to get me to sample a little bit of egg just to see if it could help me. I freaked the fuck out. I couldn't physically eat it. I also can't eat fake meat if it's too convincing.

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13-03-2017, 08:16 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
Somewhere I used to live, I had a big ant problem. I tried everything I could to stop them getting in (without hurting them) but they were still getting in. It was getting hard to cope with, so what I did in the end was to use a hand-held vacuum to hoover them up so I could transport them somewhere else. I tried it with a few to see if they would survive it. And they did! So I succesfully moved them all this way.

I realise I'm highly atypical in this regard. But we're all different. It's just how I am.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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13-03-2017, 08:22 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(13-03-2017 08:06 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(13-03-2017 07:29 AM)jennybee Wrote:  That's why we use the word *try.* We try not to kill bugs and other things, does it happen just as a result of living, yes. So because we inadvertently kill things by simply existing, that equates to killing everything we come in contact with?

It's not about being a pussy, it's about believing that *all* life has value and trying to respect that as best we can. It is possible to live in the gray and be a compassionate human being. I really never understood this all or nothing mentality that some people like to throw at vegans. Why can't doing the best you can to not use animals and animal products in an animal-use driven society be enough? Why can't trying to make lives better for animals and doing what you can do for them be enough?

As vegans, I'm sure just by living in society we come across (and potentially use) animal products on a daily basis, despite our best efforts not to. But I don't believe that due to that, that should equate to, okay go out and kill and use all animals for everything even when there are comparable (and often times better) non-animal alternatives.

I've had people getting really angry with me, totally unprompted, all my life about being vegetarian/vegan. I've concluded it's people who are made to feel uncomfortable about themselves, and so they lash out to try and make themselves feel better.

I accept that other people don't feel the same way as me, and that's their choice. I don't go up to people and preach about it. I can't be getting angry about everything people disagree with me about.

Yup. I don't understand it either. I never tell people what or how to eat. If I did, I could totally understand them saying, wtf...
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