Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
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13-03-2017, 11:06 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(13-03-2017 10:11 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(13-03-2017 09:21 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Woah, Rob mate, how do you manage, that must be extremely difficult for you. What sort of things can you eat if you don't mind me asking ?

Yeah, it's a bastard. Sure I don't mind Smile

I have cereal, toast, fake meat (soya), cooked soft veg (mashed potato, carrot etc), and pots of baby food (puréed fruit) mainly. I can have pizza which I love, but without toppings for now. A big chain restaurant in England called zizzis has started doing vegan pizza so that cheered me up a bit!

I recently had an operation to try and correct this, but it's not yet clear how successful it was. We're trying to very slowly introduce more things.
I'm really sorry I hope you get well soon, I've nursed many patients in various NHS hospitals with digestive problems the plight of some of the ulcerative colitis patients in particular were heartbreaking to see.
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13-03-2017, 12:29 PM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
So I was a vegetarian in my late teens and until I was 20-ish. I am an omnivore now and my feelings about meat have not changed much. I eat meat because I am biologically omnivorous, and because my body complains very vehemently when I don't. And I won't say I sympathize with animals I can identify with more than others. I value all life. However I accept that some death is inevitable. I don't go out of my way to cause it, but I accept when it happens. I don't cut down healthy trees, I don't kill the spider living outside my window.

Recently my husband and had an argument on whaling in one specific context. This people could not farm or raise meat, and the only local source of food they had that wasn't shipped in was through whaling. My husband was OK with this. I was not. And it's taken me a while to figure out why. And there is one reason that is relevant to this question.

I believe that when we eat we should try to minimize the suffering that would naturally happen. A deer living in the woods ends its life being eaten by a cougar, wolf, or coyote. Some of these will not wait until the deer is dead to begin eating. I kill the deer with a bullet, a quick and much more humane death, before eating it. The end is the same and the suffering is less. The end of the life of a wild cow, pig, or whatever is mostly the same (excepting feed lots, which is why I don't buy meat that has been put in feed lots). This is also why I tend not to eat chicken (other than chicken being a disgusting garbage meat).

A whale has no natural predators. A human has no natural predators. You are increasing the net suffering of the animal.

Moreover there is the distinction that a species that kills its own young would not be a species that survived very long.
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14-03-2017, 12:58 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
From what I've looked up on Veganism, it's not for everyone. There are some people who just can't process a Vegan diet properly. Which is something I never got about the vegans who are rather... harsh about their veganism. I bothered to look up some things, triple checked a lot of things.
People often say if the whole world went vegan it would be a better place. But I'm fairly certain that is just like saying socialism is the answer to everything. Not one system is all perfect, that is just wishful thinking. I know a few people, myself included, that our bodies couldn't handle being vegan for long. I eat meat, and I never push that upon others. Yet if I dare say I eat meat I'm the 'anti-Christ' and 'animal killer'.

I say people have a right to eat how they want. Some of us can't subscribe to certain diets due to complications. U'm sure if you really wanted to be vegan, even with completions, if you work for it I'm sure you can achieve it. However, not many are willing to work that hard when there are simpler ways to be healthy without going to vegan. (There are some lazy people in the world, I can admit there are times I am lazy.)
However then I say this to a online Vegans I get a lot of derogatory statements or that my 'research is faulty' or that 'oh portion sizes, then can you give the right portions without searching them up?' (Sounds like a typical troll questions right Big Grin )

I guess I'll i'm saying is that I only have a problem with people butt into my eating habits, even though I am very healthy with how I eat now, and tell me there is something 'wrong with me' because I'm not Vegan. (To mean this sounds like a religious person trying to sell me a book as the word of an all knowing person. The parrell is there, even if one is more real then the other. You're still telling me 'there is something wrong with me' and your telling me 'this is your cure' all the same, when I never asked nor wanted it.)
What ever happen to 'I do my thing and you do yours, and let's not bring up anything we know will cause a fight.'?

"Governments don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking That is against their interests.
They want obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork And just dumb enough to passively accept it."

- George Carlin
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14-03-2017, 01:10 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
Sure, I find evangelical vegans just as annoying as you do. They give us a bad name. Unfortunately, those who shout the loudest get heard most often. I don't go around announcing my veganism, I don't mention it unless it comes up in conversation. I don't judge others or tell them what to do. Sadly some people assume that I do, just because of the loud mouth element.

My brother is one of that gang. I feel that in general, you don't change people's minds that way. It's counter productive. Some people have changed their mind about things after talking to me, and it's always been because they've come to me wanting to discuss things. If I'd instead piled on them and tried to harass them into submission, I'm sure they'd have just dug in further.

I'm not actively trying to change people's minds. Just like all my positions, I'll state them openly and honestly when appropriate. If that causes someone to think, ask me questions and possibly even change their mind, then great. If not, then that's fine too.

I don't know too much about some people not physically tolerating a vegan diet, but I certainly think that would be true. I wouldn't expect anyone to make themselves ill. Ironically, due to my health conditions, my body would not tolerate well many of the things I choose to cut out anyway.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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14-03-2017, 01:17 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
PS: I totally believe in speaking up for what you think is right. Otherwise, things never change.

But I don't believe in harassing individuals, getting in people's faces, turning things into turf wars and trying to shame people into change.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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14-03-2017, 01:28 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
Typically were you find that is on youtube and a few vegan forums I tried to get on 'Philosophical Vegan' isn't I was faced with people who passively aggressively tell I was wrong.

I have some friends in real life who are Vegan and they are great people! Smile

"Governments don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking That is against their interests.
They want obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork And just dumb enough to passively accept it."

- George Carlin
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14-03-2017, 01:56 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
Yeah, vegans that post on YouTube are mental and you should keep away from them Tongue




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14-03-2017, 01:59 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(14-03-2017 12:58 AM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  People often say if the whole world went vegan it would be a better place. But I'm fairly certain that is just like saying socialism is the answer to everything.

It's more like saying: if all people would do what I want them to do world would be a better place. It's nothing more than bullshit as better is subjective term. I like meat so world in which I'm vegan wouldn't be a better place. Some authoritarian jerks thinking otherwise matters not.

Quote:I say people have a right to eat how they want. Some of us can't subscribe to certain diets due to complications.

And some just like meat. It is reason enough and people saying that I'm bad person for eating such can to put it bluntly go fuck themselves.

I don't have problem with others not eating meat, I simply don't care as this is irrelevant to me. I lose nothing by others not eating meat so there is no reason to care about it.

Quote:I guess I'll i'm saying is that I only have a problem with people butt into my eating habits, even though I am very healthy with how I eat now, and tell me there is something 'wrong with me' because I'm not Vegan.

I only have problem with moral crusaders insisting on doing things their way and trying to shame others for not subscribing to their views. Such people disgust me and I have nothing more than contempt for them.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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14-03-2017, 02:26 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
Do you think "I like doing it" is an adequate moral defense of an action? It's a genuine question, I'm not being sarcastic.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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14-03-2017, 02:29 AM
RE: Veganism, Abortion and Infanticide
(14-03-2017 02:26 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Do you think "I like doing it" is an adequate moral defense of an action? It's a genuine question, I'm not being sarcastic.

Do you think that eating meat requires "moral defense"? I don't. You think otherwise? That's tough I guess.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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