[Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
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20-12-2014, 11:42 PM
RE: [Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
(20-12-2014 11:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 11:04 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Glad you posted that, very interesting reading.

So why would a perfect god make an imperfect creation? Consider

Edit: Can a perfect god make an imperfect creation?

The entire exercise is flawed, IMO. "Perfection" would have to exist as a standard apart from the deity. A real (omnipotent) deity *could* do whatever it wanted. The Thomistic deal that only the (original) creator would be perfect, and no creature could possess it's perfection implies that the deity is operating as somehow "embedded" (of necessity) is an already or pre-existent Reality. Reality in all this nonsense remains unexplained and unaccounted for. There is no (absolute) definition of "perfection".

Thanks for clarifying but now my head hurts.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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21-12-2014, 08:22 AM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2014 06:13 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: [Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
So being the nut I am, (I haven''t even thought about the Aquinas "proofs" in ages) I was thinking about the 4th Proof, (known as the "Praeter Nessitatum") and it is funny.
I like what Dawkins said about it :

"That's an argument? You might as well say, people vary in smelliness but we can make the comparison only by reference to a perfect maximum of conceivable smelliness. Therefore there must exist a pre-eminently peerless stinker, and we call him God. Or substitute any dimension of comparison you like, and derive an equally fatuous conclusion."
— Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, 2006, p. 79

So many of the parts Aquinas' "proofs" are simply non-sequitur assertions.
Anyway, ... so what this reminds me of is the beginning of the Nicaean Creed :

"Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium.
(I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.)

Et in unum Dominum Iesum Christum, Filium Dei unigenitum, (et) ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula. Deum de Deo, Lumen de Lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero, genitum non factum, consubstantialem Patri; per quem omnia facta sunt.
And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father; through Whom all things were made."

I never realized it before, but that is essentially saying the second person of the trinity is *contingent* on the Father, ie is "generated" by the Father. That flies in the face of Aquinas' 4th proof, and says exactly the opposite. Rolleyes The way it's translated makes a distinction with no difference "begotten not made".
And If the Holy Spirit is the "love that arises (albight eternally) between the Father and the Son", that also makes no sense in the context of the 4th Proof, for the very same reason.

Facepalm

Ok. Time to take my dog out for a run. Sadcryface2

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-12-2014, 12:10 PM
RE: [Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
Awesome thread.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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21-12-2014, 03:08 PM
RE: [Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
(21-12-2014 08:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So being the nut I am, (I haven''t even thought about the Aquinas "proofs" in ages) I was thinking about the 4th Proof, (known as the "Praeter Nessitatum") and it is funny. I like what Dawkins said about it :

"That's an argument? You might as well say, people vary in smelliness but we can make the comparison only by reference to a perfect maximum of conceivable smelliness. Therefore there must exist a pre-eminently peerless stinker, and we call him God. Or substitute any dimension of comparison you like, and derive an equally fatuous conclusion."
— Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, 2006, p. 79

So many of the parts Aquinas' "proofs" are simply non-sequitur assertions.
Anyway, so what this reminds me of is the beginning of Nicaean Creed :

"Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium.
(I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.)

Et in unum Dominum Iesum Christum, Filium Dei unigenitum, (et) ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula. Deum de Deo, Lumen de Lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero, genitum non factum, consubstantialem Patri; per quem omnia facta sunt.
And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father; through Whom all things were made."

I never realized it before, but that is essentially saying the second person of the trinity is *contingent* on the Father, ie is "generated" by the Father. That flies in the face of Aquinas' 4th proof, and says exactly the opposite. Rolleyes The way it's translated makes a distinction with no difference "begotten not made".
And If the Holy Spirit is the "love that arises (albight eternally) between the Father and the Son", that also makes no sense in the context of the 4th Proof, for the very same reason.

Facepalm

Ok. Time to take my dog out for a run. Sadcryface2

You're the cat's meow bro Bowing

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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23-12-2014, 08:34 AM
RE: [Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
jojo and Bucky - both keepers, summa cum laude!

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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29-12-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: [Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
jojorumbles, you handled that situation incredibly well, and it was very cool that the one you reported to is also an atheist.

For some reason, as you were describing the religious professor sneering at you, I was thinking of that atheist professor sneering in God Is Not Dead, except taking a theist position. It was kinda funny.
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30-12-2014, 10:27 AM
RE: [Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
Nice work, jojo.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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30-12-2014, 11:14 AM
RE: [Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
Hey, any update on whether the nutbar was put back in his wrapper? I love success stories, so please share!

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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30-12-2014, 12:45 PM
RE: [Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
(20-12-2014 09:27 PM)jojorumbles Wrote:  So a few days ago my college teacher, who is directly in charge of one of my most important grades in the entire degree, found out I'm an atheist and sent me this email:

Quote:Kristen,

I found it interesting last night that an intelligent student such as yourself would be so adamant in their proclamation of atheism.

Please challenge yourself to go to Google and enter “ five proofs of God’s existence.”

This is the web address http://web.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/we...alysis.htm

It will take you to a treatise by Thomas Aquinas. The last of the five ‘proofs’ is the one that, for me, carries the most weight…the design begs a designer.

I think you will find it a persuasive essay.

Dr. [censored]

I was pissed. I really wanted to fire back and knock him down verbally, but he's in charge of my capstone grade, one of the most important grades I need for this degree. This teacher is the kind of guy who's very imposing and doesn't know when to back down or leave someone alone.

In an attempt to keep things civil yet get the point across, here was my response:

Quote:I'm a bit concerned that you would feel the need to use your facilitative authority to proselytize to a student without consent. I feel that this was an inappropriate topic for an instructor to press on a student without permission, and I feel that a line was crossed.

Though I would be more than happy to engage in such debate, I believe it would be better suited for another time, preferably after the semester is over and we are no longer in a student/teacher relationship.

I respectfully request that we maintain an air of professionalism. I also ask that we hold ourselves to a professional student/teacher relationship and the boundaries inherent in said relationship.

Sincerely;

Kristen R.

This teacher often speaks and proselytizes in class. He inserts religious questions into quizzes which have absolutely nothing to do in any way with the subject material (business development class). Even his response to my request seemed like he was trying to bait me into a "debate".

Quote:Kristen,

Fear not. The information provided was in no way meant to proselytize. In fact, it was designed to stimulate academic inquiry on a level of intelligent debate.

Although we have been in very few classes, it was my perception that you would welcome academics at that level. If my perception was inaccurate, it will be discussed no further.

The professor/student relationship was, and will continue to be, intact.

Dr. [censored]

Later on, he went on to discuss proof of god in class, not at me directly, but for the whole class in general. All the while, giving me a condescending sneer. It really ticked me off to the point I went to my program director. I taddle telled on him. This was her response:

Quote:Good morning:

As a fellow atheist, I hold strongly that any teacher or person in power should not be pushing a religion on another. I will absolutely follow through with this!


Dr. [censored]

Hopefully she'll put the fear of his god into him and make him think twice before proselytizing in the classroom again. That was Thursday and my next class with that teacher is on Monday. Fingers crossed.

Anyways, thanks for listening.

Like it or not, you can't argue with truth.

Truth seeker.
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30-12-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: [Venting] College teacher sent me religious email.
(30-12-2014 12:45 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Like it or not, you can't argue with truth.

So... how's that working out for you? Dodgy

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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