Veritas?
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31-05-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 10:24 AM)War Horse Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 09:59 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  This is my primary care physician's view, I happen to agree.

Rolling on the floor here..... this means that you actually asked that specific question of the doctor....... Laugh out load good show old chap, at least it shows that you know you have a problem. Its a start. Yes

Now , to get a proper diagnoses, you will need to see a psychiatrist, not a general primary care doctor/PA. Wink

The above is a non-sequitur. It does not follow that because my doctor told me I have none of the symptoms associated with psychosis, that therefore I asked him if I had symptoms associated with psychosis.

In addition, I have no reason to see a psychiatrist. My doctor has no reason whatsoever to think I need to see one nor do I or anyone else I spend a significant time with have any reason to think I need to see one.

Does it follow that therefore I am not psychotic. By no means. I could be and they could all just have happened to not notice. But this would be highly unlikely. Everyone here could be psychotic and live without the symptoms being detected but again this is not likely the case.

Nor is this thread about psychosis but rather , veritas.
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31-05-2014, 10:38 AM
RE: Veritas?
Seems like all these Jeremy threads are akin the Bill Clinton "depends on what your definition of 'is' is".

Word games, semantics, word salad, dodge and weave...ad nauseam.

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31-05-2014, 10:40 AM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 10:34 AM)natachan Wrote:  So, if I am to understand your question, it is this. Is it important to understand reality and to hold factual concepts of reality assuming we wish to live in reality?

I see this is still difficult for some so let me ask you this:

Is it important to you that your doctor tell you the truth if he were to discover you had a malignant tumor growing in your body?

Or would it not be important?
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31-05-2014, 10:41 AM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 10:35 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Nor is this thread about psychosis but rather , veritas.

Yes! Let's talk about Veritas!

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31-05-2014, 10:41 AM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 10:27 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 10:22 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Reason.

Ok, so do I. More specifically, inductive reasoning which forms the basis of most scientific theories.

Inductive reason works with sense perception. How can you use inductive reason to form the concept of the Christian god?

Incidentally if I don't answer your next post I didn't run out on you. I'm heading to work in about 5 minutes and I'll check back either at lunch or afterwards.

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31-05-2014, 10:49 AM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 10:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 10:34 AM)natachan Wrote:  So, if I am to understand your question, it is this. Is it important to understand reality and to hold factual concepts of reality assuming we wish to live in reality?

I see this is still difficult for some so let me ask you this:

Is it important to you that your doctor tell you the truth if he were to discover you had a malignant tumor growing in your body?

Or would it not be important?

Do you want to know about a malignant tumor? Or would you prefer to live in a fantasy where you aren't sick but simply the world is acting against you to cause pain and ultimately death? That's a personal choice.
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31-05-2014, 11:00 AM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 10:35 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Nor is this thread about psychosis but rather , veritas.

Thats the beauty of dealing with you and being on this forum, I have no need to take you seriously... which BTW, I dont, in case you havent noticed..... I done with you, you can go now. Drinking Beverage

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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31-05-2014, 11:00 AM
RE: Veritas?
Late to the game here... responding as I read, so early parts of this post might be negated or made irrelevant by things people have said in this thread already...

(30-05-2014 02:50 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Magna est veritas? Is truth important?

..... great. I sense an upcoming ontological argument bullshit of truth not being able to exist without God.

First of all, I don't even want to get into the definition of truth. I've constructed a model of the universe in which the notions of "true" and "false" for almost any statement become meaningless. I'm more likely to view things through more conventional models in which they're meaningful, but it would be impossible to discern which model we're in by any empirical method, meaning that if there's any actual distinction between worlds in which things are true or false, and worlds where this is meaningless, we would have no way of telling which we were in. That means I view the model of many statements about the universe being true or false as a highly useful interpretive or predictive tool at best, rather than being true or false in some fundamental sense. (Not ALL statements, per se, but most of them.)

But okay. Assuming a conventional model of the universe, with truth being the quality of a statement conforming to reality (also conventionally defined), as well as the second definition of truth as the collection of statements with this quality, then yes. As a matter of my own opinion, and that of many others, truth is important. (I'm sticking to the subjective because I have absolutely no idea what it would mean for something to be objectively important.) I'll further identify proper understanding of the truth to be both the target of several of my instinctual desires, as well as of potentially great value in positively influencing outcomes for myself and others.

This is why careful epistemology is so important. Discussions of what is and isn't true need to start with a methodology of how we identify what is and isn't true, and whether a chosen method is reliable. (As far as I recall, the only time you've ever mentioned epistemology is when you said you didn't want to discuss it.) I favor empirical skepticism as the best method developed to date, and within empirical skepticism the scientific method when applicable. What methodology do you use? As far as I can tell, what you do is rely on self-confirming faith (which is demonstrably an unreliable method, as shown by the vast plurality of contradictory beliefs out there, all supported by the faith of their practitioners) while copy-pasting bad apologetic arguments on the grounds of whether they seem to support your existing position (also unreliable) and promptly ignoring anyone who points out ways in which your reasons for believing are untenable, to the point of abandoning or changing the subject the instant you realize your position is deeply flawed (about as unreliable a method as there is for identifying a false belief and abandoning it).

(30-05-2014 03:12 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  wtf @ your Latin

manga = female declension and =/= "important"

This is why KC is awesome. He grammar-nazis in LATIN.
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31-05-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 10:41 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 10:27 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Ok, so do I. More specifically, inductive reasoning which forms the basis of most scientific theories.

Inductive reason works with sense perception. How can you use inductive reason to form the concept of the Christian god?

Incidentally if I don't answer your next post I didn't run out on you. I'm heading to work in about 5 minutes and I'll check back either at lunch or afterwards.

you use it the same way you use it when making inferences about anything that is not immediately accesible by our senses.

scientists believe black holes exist. no scientist has ever seen a black hole directly however but believe they exist by observing the effects it produces in objects near its circumference.

they look at the data and then through inductive reasoning form hypotheses that attempt to explain the data available. the hypothesis that best explains the data is then tentatively called a theory.

our familiar five senses tell is that we live in a universe that is fine tuned for life. our senses tell us that the universe came into existence some fifteen billion years ago in an explosion from a super dense singularity. our senses tell us that we are creatures with a sense of right and wrong and of what ought or ought not to be. our senses tell us that throughout history people have had this queer sense that something above and beyond them existed "out there".

these observations are just a small sample of the available data. now what hypothesis best explains the data?
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31-05-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: Veritas?
A toast anyone?

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A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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