Veritas?
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31-05-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 03:04 PM)Charis Wrote:  Why do I find it oddly endearing when Jeremy tells me to shush?

It's condescending...not endearing.

Makes me feel like telling him he's grounded and to go stand in a corner. Dodgy

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31-05-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: Veritas?
Yes, he's definitely being condescending, no doubt about that. But he's trying to be a big kid. Or a dad. or something. Trying to reprimand.
Makes me want to give him some fond but brutal spankings and send him to that corner you mentioned. And if he's quiet for 10 whole minutes, he can come back out and have some cookies and milk.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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31-05-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 02:17 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 01:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  An off-hand reference from Dr Hawking? Well, shucks.

Protip: no.

I note that you don't make such a disingenuous appeal to authority when it comes to the matter of cosmological "fine-tuning", something Hawking personally disagrees with.

When it comes to disappointment, J-dog, you never disappoint me.

So he never states the universe is fine tuned? is this what youre saying?

Oh, I have no doubt you can copypasta some quote-mining which, taken out of context, appears to suggest he might once have used the phrase.

Dr Hawking is, like almost anyone halfway sane, inclined to the weak anthropic view; any "fine-tuning" is a combination of bias and narcissism, and such observation is trivial. He has furthermore spent a great deal of time contemplating just how certain natural parameters came to be, at least so far as anyone may even begin to coherently ask such a question.

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31-05-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 03:42 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 02:17 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  So he never states the universe is fine tuned? is this what youre saying?

Oh, I have no doubt you can copypasta some quote-mining which, taken out of context, appears to suggest he might once have used the phrase.

Dr Hawking is, like almost anyone halfway sane, inclined to the weak anthropic view; any "fine-tuning" is a combination of bias and narcissism, and such observation is trivial. He has furthermore spent a great deal of time contemplating just how certain natural parameters came to be, at least so far as anyone may even begin to coherently ask such a question.

As Dr. Carroll pointed out in his debate with little Billy Craig, a god would not NEED to "fine tune" anything. A real god could just make life work from any set of circumstances. The universe is not fine tuned for life. Life (as we know it), will exist during 1^(-80) of the life of the universe. there are SO many fricking things that go wrong with what Evolution has produced, one morning shadowing the pediatricians in the Genetics Clinic would convince any rational person that some giant mother-fucker must have "designed" what they see ... mutations, cancers, every kind of illness and horrible thing they deal with. "Fine tuning" is bullshit seen through rose colored glasses.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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31-05-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 03:52 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 03:42 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Oh, I have no doubt you can copypasta some quote-mining which, taken out of context, appears to suggest he might once have used the phrase.

Dr Hawking is, like almost anyone halfway sane, inclined to the weak anthropic view; any "fine-tuning" is a combination of bias and narcissism, and such observation is trivial. He has furthermore spent a great deal of time contemplating just how certain natural parameters came to be, at least so far as anyone may even begin to coherently ask such a question.

As Dr. Carroll pointed out in his debate with little Billy Craig, a god would not NEED to "fine tune" anything. A real god could just make life work from any set of circumstances. The universe is not fine tuned for life. Life (as we know it), will exist during 1^(-80) of the life of the universe. there are SO many fricking things that go wrong with what Evolution has produced, one morning shadowing the pediatricians in the Genetics Clinic would convince any rational person that some giant mother-fucker must have "designed" what they see ... mutations, cancers, every kind of illness and horrible thing they deal with. "Fine tuning" is bullshit seen through rose colored glasses.

As well as being pretty dammed narcissistic.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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31-05-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 01:05 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 12:57 PM)Charis Wrote:  I didn't say it wasn't fine-tuned. I'm saying it's not fine-tuned for life.
Your link only repeated what I was saying.

if stephen hawking said that the universe was fine-tuned for life, would you believe it?

No.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-05-2014, 04:08 PM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 01:15 PM)cjlr Wrote:  No, "if things were different they'd be different" is not indicative of anything. You'll have to try harder than that.

I'm a proponent of the Weakest Anthropic Principle, which states:

"If things were different, they'd be different; but we wouldn't be here to know it."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-05-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: Veritas?
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A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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31-05-2014, 04:37 PM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 04:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 01:15 PM)cjlr Wrote:  No, "if things were different they'd be different" is not indicative of anything. You'll have to try harder than that.

I'm a proponent of the Weakest Anthropic Principle, which states:

"If things were different, they'd be different; but we wouldn't be here to know it."

Indeed.

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31-05-2014, 04:46 PM
RE: Veritas?
(31-05-2014 03:16 PM)Charis Wrote:  Yes, he's definitely being condescending, no doubt about that. But he's trying to be a big kid. Or a dad. or something. Trying to reprimand.
Makes me want to give him some fond but brutal spankings and send him to that corner you mentioned. And if he's quiet for 10 whole minutes, he can come back out and have some cookies and milk.

Yay!

Cookies!

Hug
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