Veritas?
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02-06-2014, 04:54 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2014 05:17 PM by true scotsman.)
RE: Veritas?
(02-06-2014 03:50 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 07:03 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Jeremy I showed you why your reasoning is subjective because of it's inward looking stance rather than being outward looking to the real world. Now I am going to prove to you that your Christian world view has nothing whatsoever to do with the truth.

I showed you how your Christian worldview contradicts the four axioms which the concept "objective truth" presupposes. Now I want you to prove any proposition you would like to choose, it doesn't have to be god, but any proposition but only using the tools your Christian "philosophy" gives you. I'm not going to let you steal from my philosophy any more. So here is my challenge:

Prove any proposition you would like to choose to be objectively true without using any of the following concepts:

Logic. You can't use logic because it presupposes the four axioms that your Christian worldview denies.

You can't use words. Words are symbols that represent concepts and concepts presuppose the four axioms that your Christian worldview denies.

You can make sounds as long as they don't convey any meaning since meaning presupposes the four axioms that your Christian worldview denies.

On second thought you can't use any sounds because sensory perception presupposes the four axioms that your Christian worldview denies.

That also means that you can't use body language either for the same reason.

You're left with mental telepathy to try to......oh, no that is out as well because that presupposes the concept "consciousness" that your Christian worldview denies exists.

OK are you ready to take the challenge? Let's go.

Christianity denies the four axioms of logic?

How so?

Because the claim of an all powerful god that created everything and maintains it by an act of conscious will is an explicit violation of the primacy of existence. The claim of an all powerful god affirms the principle of the primacy of consciousness over existence. When you make the claim that your god exists as a fact of reality you are saying that existence exists independent from anyone's consciousness (primacy of existence) and there also exists this consciousness which everything that exists depends on. You're denying the principles, in making the claim, that any knowledge claim must presuppose in order to be knowledge. It is the fallacy of the stolen concept.

To be conscious is to be conscious of an object, thus the implicit relationship between the subject of consciousness and the objects of consciousness. If a god created everything in existence distinct from itself by an act of conscious will then there could be no objects (entities) of consciousness only subjects (consciousness). What would result would be a consciousness with no objects to be conscious of or a consciousness conscious of nothing which is a contradiction in terms.

You can't have it both ways. It is either one or the other and when we look out at reality we see that consciousness conforms to its objects. The objects never conform to consciousness. The objects of consciousness can never switch places with the subject. In other words the subjective can never become the objective and vice versa. Now we can imagine a consciousness that can create the universe by an act of will but surely you recognize the distinct difference between imagination and reality.

So does your god's existence depend on your wants, desires, wishes, likes or preferences or does it exist as a fact of reality, independent of anyone's consciousness?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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02-06-2014, 05:03 PM
RE: Veritas?
(02-06-2014 04:31 PM)DLJ Wrote:  In case you were wondering, it is purely a coincidence that 'christian logic' is an anagram or 'aching clitoris'.

(01-06-2014 12:04 PM)War Horse Wrote:  You just aint right Tongue

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-06-2014, 07:50 AM
RE: Veritas?
You wrote: Christianity denies the four axioms of logic? How so?

Just a correction. It's not the four axioms of Logic. It is the four axioms of metaphysics, the study of the nature of the universe as a whole. Without them there is no such thing as logic.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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