Veritas?
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30-05-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: Veritas?
Is it important to hold to truth? Depends on if the truth is relevant. For me knowing the evolution of the blowfish is just useless trivia. For a biologist knowledge of internal stresses on trusses is unimportant.
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30-05-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: Veritas?
Truth is relative. Like after a crime is committed, police gather witness reports.

The witnesses are all being truthful and reporting what they saw, but more often than not things don't match up.

Perceptions of truth vary.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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30-05-2014, 04:11 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 03:12 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 03:03 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Is it important to have true beliefs/thoughts/views/perceptions about reality?

Important in regards to achieving what?

A happy life? Financial success? A successful career in science?

"Not necessarily" to the first two, "More so" for the third.

In regards to achieving a true understanding of reality.
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30-05-2014, 04:14 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 04:11 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 03:12 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  Important in regards to achieving what?

A happy life? Financial success? A successful career in science?

"Not necessarily" to the first two, "More so" for the third.

In regards to achieving a true understanding of reality.

Why is a true understanding of reality important?
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30-05-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 04:11 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 03:12 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  Important in regards to achieving what?

A happy life? Financial success? A successful career in science?

"Not necessarily" to the first two, "More so" for the third.

In regards to achieving a true understanding of reality.

I'd say that it is more important then to follow the scientific method. We do not know a-priori what is true or not, science progresses just as much by scientists recognising what is correct as it does from scientists recognising what is incorrect. The scientific community collectively form a search of the space of possible explanations. Over time a body of evidence is formed that can be referred to, reproduced, queried and re-evaluated in light of new evidence. This body of evidence is called the literature and embodies and increasingly better understanding of the true nature of reality.
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30-05-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 03:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  Truth is relative.

Is that relative?


(30-05-2014 03:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  Like after a crime is committed, police gather witness reports.

The witnesses are all being truthful and reporting what they saw, but more often than not things don't match up.

So? What is your point? That there is no true account of what happened? That seems absurd.

(30-05-2014 03:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  Perceptions of truth vary.

It is true that people have varying perceptions/views of truth.

Does that make each perception or view true?
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30-05-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 04:17 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 04:11 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  In regards to achieving a true understanding of reality.

I'd say that it is more important then to follow the scientific method. We do not know a-priori what is true or not, science progresses just as much by scientists recognising what is correct as it does from scientists recognising what is incorrect. The scientific community collectively form a search of the space of possible explanations. Over time a body of evidence is formed that can be referred to, reproduced, queried and re-evaluated in light of new evidence. This body of evidence is called the literature and embodies and increasingly better understanding of the true nature of reality.

I did not ask you which method you thought was best at ascertaining truth, I asked you if truth was important.

Is having beliefs/views/perceptions of reality that are true, important or is having true beliefs/views/perceptions of reality not important?
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30-05-2014, 04:24 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 04:14 PM)natachan Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 04:11 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  In regards to achieving a true understanding of reality.

Why is a true understanding of reality important?

I did not say it was.

I am asking you all if it is important to have true beliefs/views about reality.
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30-05-2014, 04:32 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 04:24 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 04:14 PM)natachan Wrote:  Why is a true understanding of reality important?

I did not say it was.

I am asking you all if it is important to have true beliefs/views about reality.

To what end? What will you do with this info?

If you do nothing with the info then no, the truth is unimportant. If you use the info then yes, it is.
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30-05-2014, 04:54 PM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2014 05:03 PM by Jeremy E Walker.)
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 04:32 PM)natachan Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 04:24 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I did not say it was.

I am asking you all if it is important to have true beliefs/views about reality.

To what end? What will you do with this info?

If you do nothing with the info then no, the truth is unimportant. If you use the info then yes, it is.

Well, our beliefs and views about reality are what constitute our worldview and I have noticed people that most people here speak about theism as if theism was really false. So that is why I was wondering if indeed you all believe that it is important to have true beliefs and views about reality or if your objections to theism were based on something else.

Many here have wanted me to believe that they were rational, intellectually honest human beings who were only willing to believe what was true and what can be proven and they have tried to tell me that my views about reality are actually wrong and that I should only believe what is true.

So now I am kind of confused when people are reluctant to say that having true beliefs and views about reality is important. There was no reluctance when they were objecting to the truthfulness of theistic claims.

Either having true beliefs about reality is important or it is not. Anyone that swears by science cannot say at the same time that truth is not important, for is not the scientific endeavor one that seeks truth?
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