Veritas?
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30-05-2014, 05:01 PM
RE: Veritas?
And theists talk as if theism is true. So what? As long as they don't try to push that on other people it doesn't matter.

My issue isn't with theists like my family, who generally keep it to themselves. It's with it being pushed on me. It's being harassed for not agreeing.
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30-05-2014, 05:07 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 05:01 PM)natachan Wrote:  And theists talk as if theism is true. So what? As long as they don't try to push that on other people it doesn't matter.

My issue isn't with theists like my family, who generally keep it to themselves. It's with it being pushed on me. It's being harassed for not agreeing.

Well that is my point.

If you are in search of truth, then truth is important.

Everyone I have spoken to here has wanted me to believe that they were in search of truth and that it was important to them.

Maybe I wrongly assumed you were in search of truth.

Maybe my belief that you were in search of truth was itself not true.

Are you in search of truth?
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30-05-2014, 05:19 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 05:07 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 05:01 PM)natachan Wrote:  And theists talk as if theism is true. So what? As long as they don't try to push that on other people it doesn't matter.

My issue isn't with theists like my family, who generally keep it to themselves. It's with it being pushed on me. It's being harassed for not agreeing.

Well that is my point.

If you are in search of truth, then truth is important.

Everyone I have spoken to here has wanted me to believe that they were in search of truth and that it was important to them.

Maybe I wrongly assumed you were in search of truth.

Maybe my belief that you were in search of truth was itself not true.

Are you in search of truth?
That's a different question than 'What is truth', though.

Much cheers to all.
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30-05-2014, 05:22 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 04:17 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  It is true that people have varying perceptions/views of truth.

Does that make each perception or view true?

It's true for the person who sees it that way.

It may or may not be true in reality.

I said perception, not view. Why did you insert "view"?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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30-05-2014, 05:25 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 05:19 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 05:07 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Well that is my point.

If you are in search of truth, then truth is important.

Everyone I have spoken to here has wanted me to believe that they were in search of truth and that it was important to them.

Maybe I wrongly assumed you were in search of truth.

Maybe my belief that you were in search of truth was itself not true.

Are you in search of truth?
That's a different question than 'What is truth', though.

Much cheers to all.
Yes it is.

And you have answered my question directly and honestly and I thank you for it.

I agree with you. Truth is important. It is important to me to have true beliefs and true views about reality. I do not want to live a life built on and based on lies and untruths.

My view of truth's importance is based on my desire to live a life built on truth.

Some people have a desire to live a life built on whatever makes for a more pleasurable existence etc. etc.

I am mainly asking those hard-nosed, scientifically minded, rational, evidence seeking, clear headed, intellectuals this question.
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30-05-2014, 05:27 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 05:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 04:17 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  It is true that people have varying perceptions/views of truth.

Does that make each perception or view true?

It's true for the person who sees it that way.

It may or may not be true in reality.

I said perception, not view. Why did you insert "view"?

It is synonymous with perception.

And I agree. Reality exists apart and objective of people's perceptions.
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30-05-2014, 05:27 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 05:25 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 05:19 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  That's a different question than 'What is truth', though.

Much cheers to all.
Yes it is.

And you have answered my question directly and honestly and I thank you for it.

I agree with you. Truth is important. It is important to me to have true beliefs and true views about reality. I do not want to live a life built on and based on lies and untruths.

My view of truth's importance is based on my desire to live a life built on truth.

Some people have a desire to live a life built on whatever makes for a more pleasurable existence etc. etc.

I am mainly asking those hard-nosed, scientifically minded, rational, evidence seeking, clear headed, intellectuals this question.

This is the elephant in the room then; how is the bible 'true'? I assume you are going to bring this conversation around to religion at some point correct?
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30-05-2014, 05:29 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 05:27 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 05:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  It's true for the person who sees it that way.

It may or may not be true in reality.

I said perception, not view. Why did you insert "view"?

It is synonymous with perception.

And I agree. Reality exists apart and objective of people's perceptions.

Correct, but largely irrelevant. It makes no sense to talk about reality irrespective of one or more peoples perception of it. There are no objective observers, ergo in the practical sense there is no objective morality. Consensus, sure, but objectivity? You never quite get that close.
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30-05-2014, 05:32 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 05:25 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 05:19 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  That's a different question than 'What is truth', though.

Much cheers to all.
Yes it is.

And you have answered my question directly and honestly and I thank you for it.

I agree with you. Truth is important. It is important to me to have true beliefs and true views about reality. I do not want to live a life built on and based on lies and untruths.

My view of truth's importance is based on my desire to live a life built on truth.

Some people have a desire to live a life built on whatever makes for a more pleasurable existence etc. etc.

I am mainly asking those hard-nosed, scientifically minded, rational, evidence seeking, clear headed, intellectuals this question.

At work

*Nods* So, a few different things, then.

What is true.
What is THE truth.
Theism is truth.

Much cheers to all.
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30-05-2014, 05:36 PM
RE: Veritas?
(30-05-2014 04:22 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(30-05-2014 04:17 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  I'd say that it is more important then to follow the scientific method. We do not know a-priori what is true or not, science progresses just as much by scientists recognising what is correct as it does from scientists recognising what is incorrect. The scientific community collectively form a search of the space of possible explanations. Over time a body of evidence is formed that can be referred to, reproduced, queried and re-evaluated in light of new evidence. This body of evidence is called the literature and embodies and increasingly better understanding of the true nature of reality.

I did not ask you which method you thought was best at ascertaining truth, I asked you if truth was important.

Is having beliefs/views/perceptions of reality that are true, important or is having true beliefs/views/perceptions of reality not important?

My point is that if you are following the scientific method then it does not matter if what you believe turns out to be incorrect because it helps everyone else to have explored that path.

It therefore is more important to follow the scientific method than to have beliefs/views/perceptions of reality that happen to be true "In regards to achieving a true understanding of reality" (post 23)
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