Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
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22-07-2013, 08:12 PM
RE: Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
(19-07-2013 08:10 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 05:59 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Why not? You have other assholes on here repeating the tea bagger's talking points.

You're an idiot. Negged.

Listen, asshole. Let's get something straight. You sound like a right-wing lunatic of the Ann Coulter stupid-cuint class of right wing lunatics. I don't give a flying fuck what you are any other fascist thinks.

Are we clear now?

Go fuck yourself - and blow Ronald Reagan out your silly ass.

BTW, is it okay if a state government forces you to buy insurance for your car in order to register it? Or..does that not count for some reason known only to right wing shitstains?
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25-07-2013, 06:41 PM
RE: Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
(22-07-2013 08:12 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 08:10 PM)germanyt Wrote:  You're an idiot. Negged.

Listen, asshole. Let's get something straight. You sound like a right-wing lunatic of the Ann Coulter stupid-cuint class of right wing lunatics. I don't give a flying fuck what you are any other fascist thinks.

Are we clear now?

Go fuck yourself - and blow Ronald Reagan out your silly ass.

BTW, is it okay if a state government forces you to buy insurance for your car in order to register it? Or..does that not count for some reason known only to right wing shitstains?

Don't want to pay car insurance, don't drive.
Don't want health insurance, don't live.

One you can opt out of, the other you can't.

And car insurance is incredibly expensive and flawed. Car insurance does more harm than good for those with less money. There are few accidents in which insurance saves money, and even fewer in which people need medical care. That's not to say it's uncommon, it's just not common proportional to all the people who don't get into accidents.

HOWEVER, even if you DO support the laws that require one to obtain car insurance, it's not really hypocritical. The reason people need car insurance is so that if they hurt SOMEONE ELSE in an accident, that other person can be covered. National health care, on the other hand, is personal. I don't put other people at risk when I don't buy health care - I do when I drive.
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25-07-2013, 06:45 PM
RE: Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
(22-07-2013 01:31 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-07-2013 01:08 PM)Dom Wrote:  Nor can you. You can help it, but not control it. And I bet you what, you'll end up running up a bill eventually. No one escapes. And that is why you should be forced to pay for yourself. No fair making me pay for you.

Damn right.

I'm quite a healthy man. I go to the annual or biannual appointments that are covered by my health insurance (doctor, dentist, optometrist, etc), but other than glasses there's nothing wrong with me, and there hasn't been for years. Nonetheless I'm damn glad my tax dollars are going towards healthcare (there's plenty of shit they're wasted on, but not that).

Without the shackles of socialist government death panels (aka, the Ontario Health Insurance Plan), my life would be one of destitute misery. I, and my twin, were born premature; the complications of my mother's pregnancy and delivery, and our subsequent neonatal care would have bankrupted my then-student parents.

Someone more optimistic than me might say I got my medical crisis out of the way early. But the point is that there's hardly anything more beyond my control than the circumstances of my own birth. Virtually everyone will need to use the system at some point - a life without an emergency room visit would be a rare life indeed. Doing so without ever having or intending to pay in in any way is parasitic.

"I'm damn glad"

Good for you. I'm not.
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25-07-2013, 06:47 PM
RE: Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
(25-07-2013 06:45 PM)Nemo Wrote:  "I'm damn glad"

Good for you. I'm not.

Okay.

What is the alternative?

Consider someone who suffers a medical emergency while uninsured and unable to pay for it.

What, just fuck 'em?

... this is my signature!
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25-07-2013, 07:19 PM
RE: Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
(22-07-2013 12:19 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 08:27 PM)Dom Wrote:  Hmmm, I wonder how old you are. Give it a few years and things will start breaking and you'll be in deep shit because you have no insurance. You are the one I've been paying super high prices for all these years.

No I am not. I haven't seen a doctor for anything since 2003.

I know the feeling. But I'd suggest buying a Catastrophic Injury and Illness plan for yourself. They're cheaper than a traditional health care plan but provide protection in the event of an emergency. You never know when you're going to be in an automobile accident or come down with something serious that requires immediate medical treatment.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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25-07-2013, 07:59 PM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2013 09:01 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
(25-07-2013 06:41 PM)Nemo Wrote:  Don't want health insurance, don't live.

And you are of the opinion that everyone can afford the U.S' ballooned premiums, are you?

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26-07-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
There is good and bad in the whole deal. Many part-time employers are cutting hours because of it, how does this " help the middle class " ?

" My friends. You bow to no one. " - Aragorn

"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. " — Samuel Clemens

Simple....buy low, sell high.

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26-07-2013, 03:26 PM
RE: Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
(25-07-2013 06:47 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 06:45 PM)Nemo Wrote:  "I'm damn glad"

Good for you. I'm not.

Okay.

What is the alternative?

Consider someone who suffers a medical emergency while uninsured and unable to pay for it.

What, just fuck 'em?

Fuck 'em? You just said you're happy paying into national health care, I would assume you would be willing to help pay for the sick person's care. Are you suggesting that you're happy to help others by letting the government take your money, but you're not happy with donating the money through your own free will?

If you're so concerned about the sick, do something about it. Donate money to them. If you see a family who needs money, don't complain about how the government should take care of them, donate money to them yourself and find ways to convince others to take care of that family.

Believe it or not, I don't dislike national health care because I want all the sick to just "deal with it". I want to help the sick, just not through use of coercion.

(25-07-2013 07:59 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 06:41 PM)Nemo Wrote:  Don't want health insurance, don't live.

And you are of the opinion that everyone can afford the U.S' ballooned premiums, are you?

[Image: jason-read-meme-600x428.jpg]

AKA "It's okay to take something from someone without their consent as long as they don't notice!"

"Ruling class in a capitalist society"

AKA "I'm an idiot who believes the rich "rule" over anyone."

The rich doesn't rule, the government rules in the rich's favor.
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26-07-2013, 03:57 PM
RE: Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
(26-07-2013 03:26 PM)Nemo Wrote:  Fuck 'em? You just said you're happy paying into national health care, I would assume you would be willing to help pay for the sick person's care. Are you suggesting that you're happy to help others by letting the government take your money, but you're not happy with donating the money through your own free will?

If you're so concerned about the sick, do something about it. Donate money to them. If you see a family who needs money, don't complain about how the government should take care of them, donate money to them yourself and find ways to convince others to take care of that family.

Believe it or not, I don't dislike national health care because I want all the sick to just "deal with it". I want to help the sick, just not through use of coercion.

We did try that; it's called, all of history prior to instituting public healthcare. Medical needs were above and beyond what could feasibly be provided by charity.

A completely opt-in universal health plan is almost good enough, but there are two exceptions: those who are not in a position to pay in, and those who choose not to but later make use of medical care anyway. Compassion would suggest they ought to be cared for in any case (the latter, presumably, in such emergency situations as they eventually seek it, or are unable to refuse it).

If one is principled enough to refrain from participating in any collective health insurance, and are willing to sign legal documents to the effect that one never be provided medical care (if not in a position to actively refuse), so be it. Few people would be so willing.

The issue, then, is whether the system has the capacity to handle the free riders. Historically it has not. To deal with the latter group, then, there are broadly, two options. To not treat them (morally wrong), or to force them to participate (also morally wrong). So it become a matter of which one prefers (or rather - objects to less!): the coercion of the group by the individual, or the coercion of individuals by the group.

All societies are coercive; that's what a society is - limitations on the individual for the benefit of the group. In this particular case, if a large enough majority authorizes their (whatever form of) government to make participation mandatory, then on balance it's a net good. In my opinion, naturally.

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26-07-2013, 04:02 PM
RE: Very bad news for Republicans (but great news for everyone else)
(26-07-2013 03:26 PM)Nemo Wrote:  The rich doesn't rule, the government rules in the rich's favor.

You are extremely wrong. I invite you to research the Gilded Age, the Great Depression, and the concept of a Corporate State and Crony Capitalism. Drinking Beverage




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