Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
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12-12-2014, 10:04 AM
Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
I was reading some interesting articles today, there is so much evidence against any creation myth, many things that most people don't know about or are unaware of:

The Most Unfortunate Design Flaws In The Human Body

10 Vestigial Traits You Didn't Know You Had

Here's an example of when the genetics for vestigial tails we have assert themselves a bit more than normal: (Warning, probably NSFW)

Human tail:Just Nature Going Wrong

We STILL grow tails! Not exactly something that conforms with the "image of god" creation myths, but confirms evolution right in front of us.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-12-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
If you want proof against an "intelligent" creator look no further than the fact that there's a single tube through which we eat, breath, and communicate. We can split atoms and send probes to Mars but a single jalapeno popper could be enough to kill any one of us.
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12-12-2014, 11:15 AM
RE: Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
I don't know that I'd call it 'proof' against a creator but it certainly makes more sense under evolutionary theory than creationism. It is pretty much expected under evolution as the environment changes and organisms adapt slowly. Under creationism you have to assume that the omnipotent, omniscient creator started with a limited number of basic plans which were then modified as needed and the leftover bits were allowed to hang around. Maybe they should start promoting Lazy Design or Sloppy Design instead of Intelligent Design.

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12-12-2014, 11:52 AM
RE: Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
(12-12-2014 11:15 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I don't know that I'd call it 'proof' against a creator but it certainly makes more sense under evolutionary theory than creationism. It is pretty much expected under evolution as the environment changes and organisms adapt slowly. Under creationism you have to assume that the omnipotent, omniscient creator started with a limited number of basic plans which were then modified as needed and the leftover bits were allowed to hang around. Maybe they should start promoting Lazy Design or Sloppy Design instead of Intelligent Design.

Eating, breathing, and speaking through the same passageway isn't proof against a creator - it's proof against any such creator's intelligence. Tongue
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12-12-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
Religion is a vestigial social appendage, so there you go. Drinking Beverage

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12-12-2014, 06:04 PM
RE: Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
Because an omnipotent, perfect designer couldn't get it right the first thousand times, reduced the need for an organ, and then kept it around.

Yup, makes sense.
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12-12-2014, 08:13 PM
RE: Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
(12-12-2014 10:04 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I was reading some interesting articles today, there is so much evidence against any creation myth, many things that most people don't know about or are unaware of:

The Most Unfortunate Design Flaws In The Human Body

10 Vestigial Traits You Didn't Know You Had

Here's an example of when the genetics for vestigial tails we have assert themselves a bit more than normal: (Warning, probably NSFW)

Human tail:Just Nature Going Wrong

We STILL grow tails! Not exactly something that conforms with the "image of god" creation myths, but confirms evolution right in front of us.

That is one of my favorite hammers...if we were created by the perfect creator, why would we have vestigial organs and bone formations that indicate and are evidence of our fish like ancestors?

"Your inner fish" by Neil Shubin is a great book, as is, "why evolution is true" by Jerry Coyne

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"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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12-12-2014, 10:51 PM
RE: Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
Though I prefer the terms useless and harmful, even some designs made to help us survive are not that smart. Leave it to a god to try to kill us with something that should help us survive.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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13-12-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
The cleverest theist argument I have heard regarding these traits, and even the wastefulness of evolution itself is "What does an infinite god care for waste?". If the god has infinite time, material, and energy to work from why wouldn't it act wastefully and suboptimally?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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13-12-2014, 07:52 PM
RE: Vestigal traits and bad design, proof against a creator.
He was just a bit drunk on divine gin that day.

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