Victims versus Psychopaths
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07-11-2011, 05:49 PM
Victims versus Psychopaths
Today if you can be declared mentally impaired or can afford a really top barrister you may well get away with, ot be treated very gently, for some of the worst crimes imaginable

The 'bleeding hearts' of some western nations, while looking aghast at extremely abominable crimes, also see the perpetrator as some sort of innocent victim,deprived as a child perhaps and simply getting his/her revenge on society.
The background of the essential victim/s is rarely scrutinized as they are not the ones on trial.

Insanity, so called, not only provides a defense for many evil people, it also lines the pockets of psychiarists, lawyers, social workers and many others with gold. Insanity, so called, in at least some instances, is gearing itself officially,not to the needs of society in general, but to the greeds of our entrepreneurial elites.

There may well be pyscopaths unable to control their hatefull lusts and desires to kill, mutilate, and torture and I find it strange that these people do not attack those able to put up some defence. A strange and convenient form of insanity.
At times the god defence is used....."I heard voices".

Does the paedophile who mutilates babies, rapes children, and performs all manner of perversions upon them deserve to live? Is "madness' a credible defence, especially when release often results in repeat offences?

The old religious line of hate the crime/ love the sinner has worn very thin and capital punishment, where guilt and intensity of crime is of the highest probability I see a speedy extermination as the most appropriate response. Even if the offender is "helpless" it should be remembered that deadly viruses too, lack intent, but we still have to destroy them.

In the most horrendous cases I do not see the ultimate penalty as abhorrent, nor justifying the great multitude of other gross social problems; rather I see it as a separate issue.
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07-11-2011, 07:00 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
In society, there are no separate issues. Everything and everyone is interconnected. Cause and effect chains may be tangled and difficult, but they exist, and you cut out any single piece at your peril.
Or rather, at the peril of whoever happens to be part of that piece. If that isn't you this week, it can be you next week.
The issue of justice and insanity is just too large and complex to be dealt with here.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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07-11-2011, 07:07 PM
 
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
Mr Woof, while I understand what you mean, and how you feel, I have to agree with Peterkin: the issue is just too complex to deal with, as a generalized statement.

A while ago I started a thread on "Capital Punishment" and one on "Compassion" and I believe I really said everything I could say on the subject on these 2 threads.

I see that you have been on those threads (It was a while ago), but, if you want to, you may want to review what was said there and, maybe, continue the conversation. Smile
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07-11-2011, 08:02 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(07-11-2011 07:00 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  In society, there are no separate issues. Everything and everyone is interconnected. Cause and effect chains may be tangled and difficult, but they exist, and you cut out any single piece at your peril.
Or rather, at the peril of whoever happens to be part of that piece. If that isn't you this week, it can be you next week.
The issue of justice and insanity is just too large and complex to be dealt with here.

While the issue is to complex and too large then I suppose we will have to rely on the "experts" and just play the blame game.
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07-11-2011, 08:05 PM
 
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
Thought a bit more about the topic.

It actually boils down to how we view ourselves?

Do we consider criminals (even horrible ones) as evil (which is a religious concept) and do we want revenge -- or, do we consider them SICK people, afflicted with a horrible disease like leprosy or the bubonic plague?

If the second, then do we kill our diseased members, or we try to put them in isolation, so they can't harm anyone else? Leaving the door open for a possible mistake in our diagnosis and have the chance to restore whatever life they have left after the ordeal we put them through?

Actually, now that I think about it, the issue is quite simple, not complex at all.

What kind of humans are we? that is the question.
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07-11-2011, 08:10 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(07-11-2011 07:07 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  Mr Woof, while I understand what you mean, and how you feel, I have to agree with Peterkin: the issue is just too complex to deal with, as a generalized statement.

A while ago I started a thread on "Capital Punishment" and one on "Compassion" and I believe I really said everything I could say on the subject on these 2 threads.

I see that you have been on those threads (It was a while ago), but, if you want to, you may want to review what was said there and, maybe, continue the conversation. Smile
Thought a bit more about the topic.

It actually boils down to how we view ourselves?

Do we consider criminals (even horrible ones) as evil (which is a religious concept) and do we want revenge -- or, do we consider them SICK people, afflicted with a horrible disease like leprosy or the bubonic plague?

If the second, then do we kill our diseased members, or we try to put them in isolation, so they can't harm anyone else? Leaving the door open for a possible mistake in our diagnosis and have the chance to restore whatever life they have left after the ordeal we put them through?

Actually, now that I think about it, the issue is quite simple, not complex at all.

What kind of humans are we? that is the question.

Nothing is really quite simple at all and nothing will be solved by dogma.
'Evil' may be a religious term, as is "sick", "mad", but apparently not "bad"!

As you feel you have settled the issue, in your long and ponderous threads perhaps we should all hush up and just listen.
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07-11-2011, 08:14 PM
 
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(07-11-2011 08:10 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Nothing is really quite simple at all and nothing will be solved by dogma.
'Evil' may be a religious term, as is "sick", "mad", but apparently not "bad"!

As you feel you have settled the issue, in your long and ponderous threads perhaps we should all hush up and just listen.

Mr Woof, you don't really need to make this conversation hostile -- we can reason and respond to each others' reasons without being snippy, can't we? Smile
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07-11-2011, 08:23 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(07-11-2011 08:02 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  While the issue is to complex and too large then I suppose we will have to rely on the "experts" and just play the blame game.

Okay, now you're confusing me.
What is the blame game?
Why "experts"? Whom do you mean by this - psychiatrists? jurists? legislators? And if, as the quotation marks suggest, there are no reliable experts in these areas of criminal justice administration, to whom should we turn for guidance? Plenty of opinions to choose from: editors, lawyers, intellectuals, preachers, human rights advocates, cops, thrill-seekers, avengers, yahoos. In fact, it's public opinion that influences how law-makers in various places deal with crime and punishment.
If you simply want to do away with insanity as a legal plea, call your representative.
If you want to understand why certain kinds of crime are committed in one country and not in another, or what drives people to crime in the first place, you need to do a lot of studying.
If you just want to sound off, you have.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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07-11-2011, 08:32 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(07-11-2011 08:23 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  
(07-11-2011 08:02 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  While the issue is to complex and too large then I suppose we will have to rely on the "experts" and just play the blame game.

Okay, now you're confusing me.
What is the blame game?
Why "experts"? Whom do you mean by this - psychiatrists? jurists? legislators? And if, as the quotation marks suggest, there are no reliable experts in these areas of criminal justice administration, to whom should we turn for guidance? Plenty of opinions to choose from: editors, lawyers, intellectuals, preachers, human rights advocates, cops, thrill-seekers, avengers, yahoos. In fact, it's public opinion that influences how law-makers in various places deal with crime and punishment.
If you simply want to do away with insanity as a legal plea, call your representative.
If you want to understand why certain kinds of crime are committed in one country and not in another, or what drives people to crime in the first place, you need to do a lot of studying.
If you just want to sound off, you have.

"Insanity" as a legal plea may be overcooked! As for "experts" your choice may be better than mine, given your authoritative demeanour.
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07-11-2011, 08:35 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
Ah. Yes, definitely.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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